Passport Office (Hansard, 27 July 1989)

The Minister of State, Home Office (Earl Ferrers)
My Lords, we intend to give the Passport Office the status of an executive agency. With the computerisation of the passport issuing system, a change to agency status will incorporate private sector experience and will enable staff to concentrate on the primary aim of improving the service to the public.

§ Lord Borthwick
My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for answering my Question; I am very glad to hear what he said. However, will it mean that we shall have to wait still longer at the Passport Office? I ask that because the original offices have been computerised, but it now takes considerably longer to hand out passports.

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, the whole idea of computerising the passport offices is so that passport applications can be dealt with more expeditiously. However, as always happens when one first incorporates computers one very often runs into teething troubles.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that computerisation is very often used as an excuse for increased inefficiency?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, whether it is increased inefficiency or not will depend upon the particular exercise concerned. However, I can assure my noble friend Lord Boyd-Carpenter that, as the Government have been repeatedly chivied over passport delays, we are spending £7 million in order to prevent the very delays of which your Lordships frequently complain.

§ Lord Elwyn-Jones
My Lords, can the noble Earl say when the anticipated improvement will take place?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, the whole time.

§ Lord Beloff
My Lords, can my noble friend the Minister give any assurance that the new organisation will go back to first principles? The passport system centrally in London was devised when very few people required passports. However, they are now required by almost the whole population. Therefore, why should they not be available at every central post office, for example, in any town? Why should their availability be limited to three or four centres, when we have not only computers but also fax machines?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, the availability of passports is not limited to three or four places; there are in fact six passport offices. My noble friend suggested that one should be able to obtain a passport over the post office counter. Of course, one can obtain a British visitor's passport in that way. However, the passport itself is a uniquely important document: it signifies a person's identity and national status. Therefore, I think that other countries would expect passports to be subject to a reasonable standard of government approval. That is why passports have to be dealt with competently.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, is the Minister aware that as a result of the recent difficulties experienced by the Passport Office, and because of correspondence I received, I went on three occasions over a period of a fortnight to visit the office? Of course, it has difficulties. On one day I could see that there were long queues and the next day there was almost no one there. There is a need for better computerisation. Perhaps I may request the Minister to understand that, despite being hard pressed, the staff of the Passport Office have always maintained a high efficiency and commendable courtesy.

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lord for his last observation. What he said does not always come over from the people who are frustrated at delays at the Passport Office.
I was not aware that the noble Lord had been down to the Passport office on three occasions. Perhaps I may tell him that about 80 per cent. of the applications for passports are handled by post. When people want things very quickly they tend to go and queue, and that contributes to the problems. I only hope that the rest of your Lordships who intend to take a holiday this year have already equipped themselves with the appropriate passport.

§ Baroness Phillips
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the thought of computerisation strikes terror into many of us? In addition, from the private angle, will the staff be enlisted from certain banks in order to improve the efficiency of the Passport Office?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, if the noble Baroness finds that computerisation strikes fear into her, I can assure her that that happens on many occasions when computers are introduced. People are frightened of them. But on the whole they are necessary and improve speed. The noble Baroness shakes her head; but when she sees and uses the new common format passport which is machine readable she will find that it expedites her going through the frontier controls. I am afraid that I have now forgotten the other part of her question. I assume that it was nothing of great moment!

§ Lord Hutchinson of Lullington
My Lords, would it not solve the problem if passports were abolished within the Common Market? Does not the Minister agree that any criminal can obtain a passport far more easily than going to a post office?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, I cannot agree with the noble Lord that passports should be abolished and he would not expect me to agree. With regard to the activities of criminals, of course they have methods of obtaining passports, as they have of obtaining other things which they should not have. However, that is no reason for abolishing the passport.