HL Deb 26 July 1989 vol 510 cc1432-4

3.6 p.m.

Lord Sudeley asked Her Majesty's Government:

What plans they have to designate the area where Shakespeare lived, including the Rose and Globe Theatre sites, as an area of international importance in honour of the national poet.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of the Environment (Lord Hesketh)

My Lords, the Government have no powers to make such a designation.

Lord Sudeley

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that very disappointing reply. Is he aware that two leading Shakespeare scholars, Professor Andrew Gurr of Reading University and Professor Honigmann of Newcastle, have confirmed the strong presumptive evidence that Shakespeare lived on or near the site of the Globe Theatre? Therefore, with the current excavations at the Globe and the Rose Theatre sites, does he not think that the designation of the area would be very much to the advantage of the international tourist trade?

Lord Hesketh

My Lords, I suspect that my noble friend is referring to the possibility of a world heritage site designation. Perhaps I may just give an example. The 14 sites which already exist in this country are ones such as Durham Cathedral, Fountains Abbey, Canterbury Cathedral and Blenheim Palace. It is fair to say that what exists on the site at present would not fit the same criteria as the examples I have just given.

Lord Mellish

My Lords, is the Minister aware that some of us believe that Shakespeare probably moved all over the place while he worked at this site? In any case, the importance of the whole area of my beloved Bermondsey with which I used to be associated should be given international recognition.

Lord Hesketh

My Lords, I am sure that the birthplace of the noble Lord would in its own right be a source of great pride to the people of Bermondsey. He is entirely correct to point out that Shakespeare certainly travelled. I am sure that the citizens of Stratford-upon-Avon feel that there is already considerable recognition of the great Bard in Warwick.

Lord Montagu of Beaulieu

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that in 16th century London that area was better known for its brothels than its theatres?

Lord Hesketh

My Lords, I am very grateful to my noble friend for his ability yet again to provide me with an extension to my limited knowledge of 16th century London.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, this on-going development is assuming Shakespearian proportions in itself. Can the Minister be good enough to say what the present position is? The House would wish to know precisely what the planning implications are. For example, I have read that Southwark Council, which is directly involved, has criticised the noble Lord's department because the council has received no guidance whatsoever from it. Would it not be a good idea for the noble Lord's department and Southwark Council to get together to discuss the matter so that the man in the street may have some view about it.

Lord Hesketh

My Lords, there was a development last night, which was that, subject to the completion of a legal agreement, the London Borough of Southwark has now approved planning permission for the developers' revised proposals which will allow the known theatre remains to stay on public display. We believe that this is a good solution to a difficult problem. Furthermore, I wish to congratulate all those who have worked together to achieve this solution through voluntary means.

Baroness Strange

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that when my noble kinsman and I visited the site of the Rose Theatre yesterday morning the air was thick with dust, the site was covered with rubble and the noise of bulldozers and pile drivers was absolutely hideous? I could not help thinking of the last recorded magical words of Lord Olivier, who said, "Cry God for England, Harry and the Rose".

Lord Hesketh

My Lords, we have received assurances from the developers. Further to that, with regard to last night, the details of which are of course a matter for Southwark, I understand that the conditions will relate to the approval of some of the elevation of details and the protection of the archaeological remain- during the period of construction.

The Viscount of Falkland

My Lords, is it not a fact that, apart from cultural considerations, American tourists have shown enormous interest in the Rose Theatre and are likely to show a similar interest in the Globe Theatre when it is excavated? Will the Minister say whether these considerations and the economic aspects of the tourist interest will influence his department in any future decisions?

Lord Hesketh

My Lords, with regard to the Globe Theatre, the Museum of London is now carrying out an evaluation of the site where the Globe is believed to have been. However, the result of last night's developments is that it appears that there has been a satisfactory outcome for the preservation and for the public display of the remains that have already been proven and discovered.