HL Deb 10 July 1989 vol 510 cc73-9

7.9 p.m.

Viscount Davidson rose to move, That the draft regulations laid before the House on 26th June be approved [23rd Report from the Joint Committee].

The noble Viscount said: My Lords, it is my pleasant task this evening to explain the regulations governing the administration of the assisted places scheme to your Lordships. The draft regulations consolidate, with certain small amendments which I shall describe, the Education (Assisted Places) Regulations 1985 as amended in 1986, 1987 and 1988.

The assisted places scheme was established in 1981 for the purpose of widening the educational opportunities of able children from less well-off families. It provides their parents with assistance towards the fees of some of the best independent schools in the country. This assistance is on a sliding scale based on parental income, and the principal changes embodied in the consolidating regulations are concerned with the annual revision of those scales.

In past years there have also been technical amendments to keep the definition of "total parental income" for the purposes of the scheme constant as tax legislation changes. This year one such amendment takes account of the position of APS parents who either receive or pay maintenance payments. But I venture to suggest that all of the amendments which I shall describe in a moment are quite straightforward.

Part I of the draft regulations deals with citation, commencement, application and interpretation. By virtue of draft regulation 1, the regulations are to come into force on 12th August. Part II of the draft regulations deals with eligibility for assisted places, and is unchanged from earlier years. Part III deals with remission of fees. Draft regulation II of Part III has been amended to increase from £950 to £1,000 the amount which may be deducted from the relevant total income of an assisted place holder's parents, in respect of each child or dependent relative other than the assisted place holder. Parts IV and V cover administrative arrangements and miscellaneous requirements and are unchanged.

Schedule 1 provides for parents' income for the purposes of the scheme to be computed on the basis of their "total income" as defined with reference to tax legislation in Regulation 11. The provisions at paragraph 5 of Schedule 1 ensure that, despite changes in the taxable status of maintenance payments introduced in the Income and Corporation Taxes Act 1988, APS parents making maintenance payments will continue to be able to offset those against their "relevant income". These provisions also ensure that APS parents receiving such payments will continue to count them as part of "relevant income". But these provisions only preserve the status quo so far as concerns the assisted places scheme.

Draft Schedule 2 sets out the income scale used for assessing parents' contributions towards fees. As usual this has been uprated to take account of movements in the retail prices index. The threshold at or below which parents pay nothing towards fees is raised from £7,258 to £7,584. Draft Schedule 3 revokes the 1985 regulations and the regulations amending them.

The provisions and amendments I have just described will ensure the continued smooth running of the assisted places schemes, and I trust they will find favour with your Lordships. I beg to move.

Moved, That the draft regulations laid before the House on 26th June be approved. [23rd Report from the Joint Committee.]—(Viscount Davidson.)

Baroness David

My Lords, I must of course thank the Minister for going through the routine that we have to follow with this hardy annual. I thank him for that, but my dislike for the whole scheme does not get any less with the years. The amendments this year are very slight, and I cannot raise objection to them.

Every year that I have dealt with this provision I have expressed my objection to it. Most years there has been some kind of an expansion to the scheme. I am told that 52 more schools have applied to join the scheme this coming September. Is that correct? I am not sure about the numbers of pupils now in the scheme. I believe that it is 27,000, but that figure may be a little out of date now. However, I know that in a parliamentary Answer the Secretary of State said that the numbers would be increased to 35,000 by the mid-1990s. So the scheme grows and grows.

Last year the noble Earl, Lord Arran, said that the average cost of an assisted places pupil was £1,952. I understand that the cost of a maintained pupil was £1,500. There is certainly quite a considerable difference there. I hope that when the Minister replies he can update those figures.

The total cost of the scheme this year is £52.3 million. Next year it will be £59 million. In earlier years there was only one age group in the scheme. However, now we have gone beyond that point after more than seven years of the scheme. The subsidy from the taxpayer to the independent schools, is increasing year by year. Without it there is no doubt that some independent schools would be in considerable difficulty. The figure that I have been given of 52 schools which want to join the scheme this year is quite significant. Those schools need some financial help. I have given the Minister warning of my next question. How many of these subsidised schools have more than 20 per cent., 30 per cent. or 40 per cent. of their pupils assisted in this way?

I also wish to ask the Minister about the position of the national curriculum. All the pupils in state schools have to follow it, except perhaps for city technology colleges. However, they are a bit separate from the system anyway. Is it to be a condition of these 52 extra schools being accepted into the scheme that they will have to follow the national curriculum?

Yesterday, out of interest, I looked up the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Butler, on the Second Reading of the 1980 Bill which set up the scheme. He had misgivings about the scheme as a whole and particular misgivings about how it would affect the sixth forms in the comprehensive schools. Can the Minister tell us how many pupils move at 16 from the state to the independent sector, and what proportion of the total number of assisted places pupils are in sixth forms?

I do not expect the Minister can tell me, but I should very much like to know how many pupils who have received assisted places, or indeed how many independent sector pupils who are moving out of the private system at 16, go into sixth form or tertiary colleges. In my area quite a number of pupils are transferring at that age. I should be interested to know of any figures that the Minister may have, although I cannot expect him to produce them.

There is one other piece of information that I should like. Under Regulation 19 of the principal regulations, participating schools must ensure that at least 60 per cent. of all their assisted places pupils attended state schools before taking up their places. I believe that the pupils must have spent two years in state schools. Is that provision checked, and is it being adhered to? Are any applications made by schools to the Secretary of State to modify or dispense with that requirement? Schools are able to do that under the regulations.

I end as I started, by regretting the money being spent on this scheme when the state scheme is suffering from a shortage of money and teacher shortages. Our philosophy of education is to provide all children with the best education possible. This scheme does not contribute to that aim, and could well damage the state system.

Lord Ritchie of Dundee

My Lords, from these Benches I too wish to thank the Minister for his exposition of the regulations. I wish to restrain myself from any expressions of general disapprobation, which I have adequately covered in preceding years. However, I wish to ask the Minister a few questions.

Regulation 8 deals with the academic conditions of acceptance. Presumably a school may accept or reject any child without giving reasons. That is entirely within the choice of a particular school. I think that that is on the whole right. The regulation merely states that a school must be satisfied that a child: is capable of benefiting from the education provided at the school". I should be interested to know whether that could apply to a school offering special education of any kind. A child in special need—for example, a child suffering from dyslexia—may yet be very bright and capable of reaching a high standard. Would such a child be acceptable? If that is the case, I would view the whole scheme with much less disapprobation than I do at present.

The noble Baroness, Lady David, asked whether there was a check on whether schools are keeping within the 60 per cent. of pupils that they are required to take from maintained schools. I wish to echo that question. The same point exactly occurred to me. Is there a check on this, or is that figure merely taken out of the air and disregarded?

I should also like to refer to the total number of children involved. Two years ago when the regulations were debated I asked what the ceiling figure was and was told that it was 35,000 places. Can the Minister confirm that that is still the case? Can he also confirm that it is government policy to maintain a limit or whether the scheme will expand indefinitely?

Those questions conclude my remarks. I shall be interested in any answers which the noble Viscount can give.

Lord Dormand of Easington

My Lords, this is obviously not an appropriate time for a major debate on what some of us regard as a very important issue. However, I wish to support the statements made by my noble friend Lady David about how strongly my party continues to object to the scheme, for the reasons which my noble friend gave. When the scheme came into operation, we felt that it was totally unnecessary. All of us on this side of the House thought that it was simply one more doctrinaire scheme introduced by the Conservative Party.

I mention that particularly because it seems to me that the reasons are now even more compelling than in the past: the reduction in expenditure on education, the shortage of teachers, the schemes which the Government are now proposing to make good that shortage, and so on. We argue that the money which has been devoted to the scheme could have been better spent.

The rest of my contribution to the debate consists of a number of questions. The first is: how is the selection carried out by the schools concerned? We know that in Part II, paragraph 8 the regulations state: the selection of children for assisted places at a school shall … be made by the school in accordance with such methods and procedures as appear to them appropriate". On that basis—and I do not object in principle, except to the principle of selection which is something with which we on this side have constantly disagreed—presumably there is a great variety of methods of selection. Is the Minister in a position to tell the House what methods are being used by schools to accept pupils for their particular establishments?

The introductory paragraph to the instrument states: after consulting … such bodies as appear to them to be appropriate and to be representative of schools eligible to participate in the assisted places scheme". Who has been consulted and in what form? I ask that question specifically because the present Government have a deplorable record with regard to consulting teachers. They do not even allow teachers to negotiate their own salaries. They have not been consulted on a number of major issues in education. Perhaps we could be told about that.

My next point concerns paragraph 2, "Interpretation", which deals with fees. It states that: 'fees' means … tuition and other fees". Can we be told what the words "other fees" cover? Again, I ask for a particular reason. We know that there is controversy over a number of issues in the public sector at the moment, such as the question of the purchase of musical instruments and the payment which now has to be made by parents for educational visits. Those are important matters and I believe that we are entitled to an explanation.

My final point deals with the whole of Part II, headed "Eligibility for assisted places". Have there been any changes in eligibility since the scheme first started? I do not mean since last year when the instrument was put before the House. I ask that question in all innocence because it seems to me—and I am relying on my rather imperfect memory—that the scheme has improved. For example, paragraph 4 concerns children living in the European Community. That must be a good thing. Paragraph 3 deals with a child who is a refugee. It seems to me that those additions to the scheme must necessarily add to the value of the scheme, if one accepts that the scheme itself is a good one.

I have asked a variety of questions. I hope that the Minister will be able to answer them.

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady David, and the noble Lord, Lord Ritchie of Dundee, for their constructive reactions to the regulations. At the same time I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Dormand of Easington, that this is probably not the occasion for a full debate on the merits or demerits of the assisted places scheme. He has raised a number of rather technical questions. Perhaps in the circumstances he will not mind if I write to him with a comprehensive reply because his questions are rather detailed and I do not think that I have all the answers in my folder.

The assisted places scheme is now in its eighth successful year. I can assure noble Lords opposite that any doubts which they may have about it are not shared by the many parents whose children have benefited and will continue to benefit from it.

There are now more than 27,000 pupils in the assisted places scheme—the noble Baroness mentioned that figure, which I can confirm—of whom about two thirds come from families with incomes under £12,000 a year. The scale for determining the amount of fee remission is intentionally a demanding one and only those families with incomes currently below £7,258 qualify for completely free places. Even so, in the current school year 34 per cent. of all assisted pupils are eligible for full remission of fees. It is quite clear that the scheme is working to the advantage of those less well off families for whom it is intended.

The APS provides excellent value for money. I can tell the noble Baroness, Lady David, that in the 1987–88 academic year the average cost to the taxpayer of each assisted pupil was £1,952. The corresponding average cost of a pupil in the maintained sector was £1,780, a difference of only £172. Even that small difference is due largely to the high proportion of sixth form provision which the scheme supports. The excellence of the output from APS expenditure is beyond question. Assisted place holders achieve on average a pass rate at "A" level of around 90 per cent. The average for the maintained sector is around 75 per cent. Like noble Lords opposite, we believe in equality of opportunity for all pupils, but we go about achieving it by levelling up, not down. The assisted places scheme is an important part of the process.

Ninety per cent. of all entry age assisted places are now being filled. We plan to make hat figure 100 per cent. by redistributing unfilled places to schools where demand exceeds supply and by bringing in new schools. I am pleased to confirm that from this September, 52 more excellent schools are joining the APS and the list is still under review.

Baroness David

My Lords, can the Minister say whether a list of those schools will be published? I am rather surprised that there are still 52 more independent schools which have such a marvellous record.

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, a list of all schools which operate the assisted scheme is published. A list of the 52 additional schools will be made available.

Thus the opportunities offered by the scheme will be opened to even more families throughout the country. It means that geographically more schools are provided under the scheme in the North than in the South at present.

The scheme is not a means of supporting those families whose children would have entered the independent sector without the aid of an assisted place. Under the principal regulations, participating schools must ensure that at least 60 per cent. of their assisted pupils attended state schools immediately before taking up their assisted place. In practice, and with a very few exceptions, this requirement has been easily met.

The assisted places scheme is plainly achieving its objective of opening up some of the best independent schools to children who almost certainly would not otherwise have been able to look to them as an option. That can only be to their and the nation's advantage.

The noble Baroness, Lady David, asked me certain questions. So far as concerns the proportion of assisted pupils in sixth form entry, just over 2,000 of the 34,000 assisted places now available are for direct entrant sixth formers. Our information that just over 71 per cent. of all APS pupils have spent the qualifying period in the maintained sector is collated from the annual returns sent to us by participating schools. We have no reason to doubt that information. Information given to us by the participating schools is audited every year. In 1987, about 50 APS schools had more than 20 per cent. of their pupils assisted and, of those, about 10 had more than 30 per cent. of their pupils assisted, but I regret that I have no information available to give to the noble Baroness as to how many APS pupils leave after the fifth form.

The noble Lord, Lord Ritchie of Dundee, asked me about children with special needs being acceptable for assisted places. There is no reason why a pupil with special needs should not hold an assisted place, provided that the school concerned is prepared to admit that child on the basis of its academic criteria and has the facilities to support the special educational need in question.

As I said, I have certain notes here in reply to the points raised by the noble Lord, Lord Dormand of Easington. I should prefer to put the information in writing so that it is in less of a form of shorthand than I have in front of me.

I believe that I have answered all the points raised. If I find, when I have studied Hansard, that I have missed any, I hope that noble Lords will not mind if I write to them with the answers.

Lord Dormand of Easington

My Lords, before the noble Viscount sits down, perhaps he will add in his reply to me a point that arises from the noble Lord's question. Presumably, if the information is sent to him, he will be able to tell us how many children with special needs have been accepted in assisted places.

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, I shall certainly do that if it is possible to discover the figures. It may take rather a long time, but I shall do my best.

On Question, Motion agreed to.

Lord Henley

My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn during pleasure until 7.45 p.m.

Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.

[The Sitting was suspended from 7.32 to 7.45 p.m.]