HL Deb 06 July 1989 vol 509 cc1272-4

3.11 p.m.

The Earl of Cork and Orrery asked Her Majesty's Government:

What member states of the Warsaw Pact have, or are thought to have, a chemical warfare capacity.

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, the Soviet Union is the only member of the Warsaw Pact to have admitted possessing a chemical weapons capability. As published in the Statement on the Defence Estimates 1989, we have good reason to believe that, contrary to Soviet claims, the Soviet Union has stationed chemical weapons in Eastern Europe and that such weapons have also been produced by other members of the Warsaw Pact.

The Earl of Cork and Orrery

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer, clouded though it may be in a certain cautious obscurity. When it comes to securing by negotiation the destruction of chemical agents, is not the great difficulty the problem of how to secure mutual verification? How do Her Majesty's Government hope to achieve that if they do not even know where the stuff is being made?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend that verification is one of the difficulties, but the United Kingdom has been active in the Geneva negotiations on a comprehensive, world-wide verifiable ban. As he says, complex issues remain, especially on the question of verification.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, have not the Geneva talks on the banning of chemical weapons now been going on for 18 years? Is any progress being made there? If there is no progress, what is the use of the talks? Is there any progress, for example, on the important issue of verification? Will the Minister enlighten the House on the present state of those talks?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, if there were no talks, I suspect that there would be even less progress. We have played a positive role as co-ordinator of the Western Group. My honourable friend the Minister of State at the Foreign Office spoke at Geneva on 15th June. He underlined our commitment to the negotiations, referred to the improved climate for arms control and gave details of the United Kingdom's work on verification issues, including our programme of trial challenge inspections at military facilities. That information may go some way towards helping my noble friend Lord Cork and Orrery.

Lord Orr-Ewing

My Lords, have the stocks been reduced since President Gorbachev came to power four years ago? NATO then estimated that there were 300,000 tonnes of chemical weapons stocked on the Eastern Front. Are the stocks still as great as that or has there been an effort to reduce them in view of the better climate under President Gorbachev?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, the Soviet Union has the world's largest and most sophisticated chemical weapons capability. The Soviet stated stockpile figure, which is 50,000 tonnes of toxic agent, is several times lower than Western estimates. The figure that my noble friend gave is within the range of possibilities.

Viscount Montgomery of Alamein

My Lords, can my noble friend throw any light on the suggestion that was made some weeks ago about a possible chemical warfare capability being produced in Libya?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, the Libyan chemical weapons programme, as thought to be the case by those who made those claims, is a disturbing one, given its links with terrorism. I assure my noble friend that the United Kingdom has played a leading role in increasing awareness of that threat.

Lord Murton of Lindisfarne

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that what is produced in Libya under the present climate is more dangerous than what is produced in Russia?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, that may well be the case, which is why we have drawn attention to it.