Naseby: Battle Site (Hansard, 26 January 1989)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Transport (Lord Brabazon of Tara)
My Lords, the merits of alternative routes were discussed at length during a public inquiry in 1984–85. The inspector considered the position at paragraphs 2174 to 2184 of his report. The Secretaries of State for the Environment and Transport published their decision letter. Paragraphs 55 to 61 dealt with the hard choice between preserving the whole battlefield and protecting the environment elsewhere. After considering all the evidence they were satisfied that even the effects on the battlefield and its historic claims did not outweigh environmental and other arguments. The northern route crossing the battlefield at low level was endorsed.

The Earl of Buchan
My Lords, I thank the Minister for his Answer. If the inspector made a report on which route should be chosen and chose only to take into account humdrum matters such as cost, amenity, drainage etc., when the real issue is the importance of the site of the Battle of Naseby—in fact the Battle of Naseby itself—why could not the Minister have overruled the inspector and taken into account the important issues affecting such a battle site? Our history books now teach about Prince Rupert's charge, King Charles's treacherous negotiations with the French and so on. If the Minister cannot overrule the inspector on such an important matter, what is the purpose of having a Minister?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, of course the Minister can overrule or not take the advice which the inspector gives. In this case he chose not to do so. As I outlined in my original Answer, in his report the inspector took into account the importance of the battlefield. After weighing up all the matters recommended for consideration, he came down in favour of the route which was chosen.

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, is the Minister aware that as long ago as 1974 consultants who were appointed by the Department of Transport recommended the southern route and that their view was accepted by the Minister concerned in August 818 1975? He took the view that the factors were evenly balanced but that the historic significance of the site was an overriding consideration. Has a change taken place in the department's attitude between then and now?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, because of physical-geotechnical studies made in 1979 and 1980 which showed serious ground instability south of Naseby, it was difficult to locate the route away from the village. In the interests of local communities options north of Naseby were explored and the northern route identified. In the view of the Department of Transport that was economically and environmentally better than any viable southern route.

§ Viscount Massereene and Ferrard
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that there has been a statement from the European Community that historic battlefields ought to be protected from urbanisation and motorways in particular? Does he agree that although the Battle of Naseby was a small battle, involving only about 22,000 men, it has been the foundation of constitutional monarchy in this country and that therefore—

Noble Lords
No, no!

§ Viscount Massereene and Ferrard
Yes, my Lords, it has. I am not stretching a point. Does my noble friend agree that it is indeed a very important site and should not be abandoned for purely commercial reasons?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, that might be the case if the proposed road crossed the main part of the battlefield, which it does not. It probably crosses a part of the line of Prince Rupert's charge but not the ground on which the main bodies of the two armies were engaged. Certainly I can show my noble friend a map to prove that point.

§ Lord Beloff
My Lords, is the Minister aware of the extreme care taken by the authorities in the United States over the preservation of battlefields of a much less important civil war than ours? Moreover, is it possible to teach children not to commit acts of vandalism when they are set such appalling examples by government departments?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
I am afraid I cannot accept that, my Lords. As I have outlined, the damage done to the battlefield is not that serious. The damage that would have resulted had the other route been chosen would have upset a number of communities. I think it worth pointing out that the Northamptonshire County Council, the Daventry District Council and the parish councils of Cold Ashby and Haslebech, which are the areas affected, all opposed the southern route and approved the department's route.

§ Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that there is a danger of turning this country into an archaeological site? Is it not the result of the battle rather than the exact place on which it was fought that is important? Will he 819 confirm that Oliver Cromwell would have agreed with me?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I cannot answer the last part of my noble and learned friend's question except to say that I understand that Oliver Cromwell was in favour of parliamentary procedures. This route was chosen by two democratically elected Secretaries of State following laws which have been laid down by Parliament.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that events have turned out more fortunately in Scotland? Within the last five years the road that ran through the battlefield of Culloden—which took place about a century after Naseby and where the last battle on British soil was fought—was closed and a road built round it?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I was not aware of that fact. I could not be expected to be aware of it in view of the Question on the Order Paper.

§ Lord Renton
My Lords, as one who represented Oliver Cromwell's constituency for 34 years (and he represented it for about eight years) may I ask my noble friend whether he is aware that Oliver Cromwell, as a Member of Parliament, was trying to ride roughshod over parliamentary procedures in defending Parliament on the battlefield?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I am sure that my noble friend has a far greater knowledge of Oliver Cromwell than I have.

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that, having given due parliamentary and other considerations to the competing claims, it is best for us now to get on and take some further step toward the completion of the strategic network of roads which are to the commercial and general benefit of the nation?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I entirely agree with my noble friend. This battle has been fought over a number of years, and has included two cases brought before the courts, both of which were found in favour of the route chosen by the Secretaries of State. Therefore I think it is time to get on and build the road.

§ Baroness Strange
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the battlefield of Naseby is known to be haunted? Might this not cause considerable difficulty when there is a motorway running through it with consequent danger to traffic?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, it all depends on whether you believe in ghosts.

§ Lord John-Mackie
My Lords, can the Minister tell us of any reason why, in this age of tunnels, the route cannot be tunnelled under the site? After all, the M.11 was tunnelled under the cricket pitch at Epping.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I think that the cost of tunnelling under this particular section would be disproportionate to the benefits achieved.

§ Lord Kennet
My Lords, talking of special protection for battlefields, should we also not have special protection for those fields in which very good poems have been written and in which very interesting people have proposed marriage to one another?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, possibly, but at this battlefield there are no remains of the battle to see. It looks like an ordinary field, so far as I am aware.

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, may I—

Noble Lords
Next Question!

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, very briefly—

Noble Lords
Next Question!

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, I think everyone would agree—

§ The Lord Privy Seal (Lord Belstead)
My Lords, the noble Viscount is in the hands of the House. If the House wishes to have the next Question, the next Question it ought to be.