HL Deb 16 January 1989 vol 503 cc1-4

Lord Shackleton asked Her Majesty's Government:

What steps are being taken by the Ministry of Defence in conjunction with the appropriate local planning authorities to ensure that the conditions of sale and of the subsequent development of East Camp, the last remaining part of the former RAF Hendon, enchance the long-term well-being of the RAF Museum and its surroundings.

The Minister of State for Defence Procurement (Lord Trefgarne)

My Lords, the future of this site, which is now surplus to MoD requirements, will be a matter for the eventual purchaser, with the agreement of the local planning authority. The latter have made it clear that any development must take into account the presence of the listed buildings on the site and the interests of the RAF Museum nearby.

Lord Shackleton

My Lords, does the Minister not agree that the Ministry of Defence is virtually the owner of this great national museum? Can the noble Lord say why the museum has not been consulted? The trustees who are in his own department have not been consulted on what is going to be done. A building such as the Graham White hangar, which is a very ancient and historic pre-first world war factory, could sensibly be brought into the museum field. Does the Minister agree that it would be very much cheaper to consult the director of the museum?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, the first duty upon the Ministry of Defence is to get a proper return for the taxpayer from this very valuable site. I can assure the noble Lord that we shall take fully into account the interests of the RAF Museum. The planning brief issued by the local authority, which I dare say the noble Lord has seen, enjoins would-be future developers of the site to take into account the views of the RAF Museum and to consult with it.

Lord Irving of Dartford

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that this may be the last opportunity for the RAF Museum to expand? Does the Minister not agree that it would be a tragedy if this opportunity was missed?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, the RAF Museum was associated with one of those who expressed interest in acquiring the site concerned. The site itself extends to some 38 acres, but I am not sure that the RAF Museum would wish to have access to the whole of it.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter

My Lords, will my noble friend bear in mind that the continued well-being of this museum is a matter of concern to a very large number of people in this country who realise what we owe to the RAF?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I entirely agree with my noble friend about the importance of the RAF Museum. That is why the listed buildings on the site which are of RAF interest must be preserved in an appropriate way. It is also why the local planning authority has made it clear that it will attach considerable importance to the interests of the RAF Museum.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, is the noble Lord satisfied that the trustees have been properly consulted throughout these negotiations? Is it not the case that the trustees feel a good deal of disquiet because of the way in which this matter has been handled by his department? Can the Minister confirm that further discussion with the trustees and other interested parties should take place before any final decision is reached? For example, can there not be a tripartite discussion between the trustees, officials of his department and the local planning authority, which I believe to be Barnet Council?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I have expressed considerable sympathy as regards the position of the RAF Museum in this matter. The museum was associated with one of the bidders for this site. It is therefore perhaps not surprising that the other bidders were concerned that there were commercial interests at stake as regards the amount of information that could be revealed to the RAF Museum, which was clearly one of the parties commercially interested in the whole matter. Having said that, I quite agree that the RAF Museum is a most important part of our national heritage and in particular of the history of the Royal Air Force, as my noble friend suggested. The interests of the museum must be taken into account in reaching a conclusion on this matter. I can assure your Lordships that we shall do just that.

Lord Shackleton

My Lords, can the Minister explain what he means by his statement that the RAF Museum was associated with one of the companies that sought to develop the site? Is there anything improper? Does the Minister believe that the RAF authorities concerned with the museum or the RAF Board wish to become involved on the commercial side? Can the Minister tell the House whether the planning brief is available? I do not know that it has been seen. If not, can the Minister make it available? The noble Lord, Lord Orr-Ewing, had hoped to be here. He was a former member and he wishes to be associated with everything that we are saying.

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I have seen the planning brief, which is quite an extensive document. It is issued by the local planning authority and it gives preliminary indications of the kind of development that the authority considers appropriate for this site. That document is publicly available. It has already been made available to all the firms which have expressed an interest in acquiring the site. That includes the RAF Museum.

Lord Elwyn-Jones

My Lords, does the Minister not agree that the maintenance and enhancement of the RAF Museum is the first consideration that should govern ministerial action in this matter?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I am not sure that that is entirely so. Of course we attach great importance to the RAF Museum. It has been on the site for some considerable time. But we also have a duty to the taxpayer to ensure that the site is disposed of in a way that meets the taxpayers' interests. I was very forcefully reminded of that particular point in a recent celebrated case.

Lord Nugent of Guildford

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that, on the first occasion on which he has answered questions at the Dispatch Box since he was honoured with a Privy Counsellorship, we have all been impressed with his customary form—fortiter in re' suaviter in modo?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I am greatly obliged to my noble friend for his kind personal remarks. I shall do my best in the future to live up to his high commendation.

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