Council House Sales (Hansard, 13 February 1989)

The Minister of State, Department of the Environment (The Earl of Caithness)
My Lords, nearly 200,000 local authority and new town dwellings in Great Britain are expected to be sold during 1988–89.

§ Baroness Elliot of Harwood
My Lords, may I congratulate the Government on this very successful policy? Will the policy continue and are there sufficient houses to meet the demand which might arise?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend. I agree with her that this is an excellent policy. The local authorities have about 4.5 million houses still to be sold.

§ Lord Graham of Edmonton
My Lords, if the noble Earl can be so precise as to the number of council houses that can be sold, can he tell the House the number of houses he expects to be built?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I know that the noble Lord is hooked on local authority building. He will be aware of the very substantial increase in funds which we have given to the Housing Corporation so that housing associations can build houses as well as the private sector.

§ Lord Grimond
My Lords, can the Minister tell us at what discount under market prices the houses will be sold?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, that depends on a number of permutations, including the time during which the person has lived in the property and whether it is a house or a flat. The maximum discount for a house is 60 per cent. and for a flat 70 per cent.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, can my noble friend say whether any local authorities are still obstructing or delaying the sale of council houses?

The Earl of Caithness
Yes, my Lords. Unfortunately there are a number of local authorities which are not proceeding to deal with the right-to-buy applications as speedily as we should have liked. I remind my noble friend that, as a result of the Housing Act which we discussed during the last Session, there will now be penalties on local authorities.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, is the noble Earl able to give an answer as to the approximate number of houses that will be sold? He could not give the answer to the vital question regarding the increase of homelessness as to the number of houses that will be built by local authorities. Does he not accept that it would be wrong for houses to be sold to those who can afford to buy them when those who can hardly pay the rent of the house have to go homeless? Is that not a pretty hopeless situation for quite a number of people in our nation?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, the noble Lord is mixing up three or four very important areas. The Question on the Order Paper relates to sales of council houses.

§ Lord Taylor of Blackburn
My Lords, will the noble Earl name the authorities that are obstructing the sale of council houses? Further, will he reply to the question asked some time ago as to how many houses are being built this year?

§ Lord Graham of Edmonton
My Lords, council houses.

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I replied to that in answer to the noble Lord, Lord Molloy. I said that it was another question not related to the sale of council houses, which is the Question on the Order Paper. As regards those local authorities which are not proceeding with right-to-buy applications. I can tell the noble Lord that Camden and Brent are two of the councils.

§ Lord Stallard
My Lords, further to the reply given to my noble friend Lord Molloy, does the Minister not agree that, in view of the ever increasing numbers of homeless people and those in bed and breakfast accommodation, and the demand for more rented accommodation, it is time to review the policy of wholesale selling without there being some kind of replacement housing for rent?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, again the question asked by the noble Lord goes wider than the Question on the Order Paper. However, the supposition behind it that there is less property to rent as a result of the right to buy is quite wrongly founded. If we look at the statistics we see that local authority lettings to new tenants in 1986-87 were comparable with those of 1981-82, although about 1 million right-to-buy applications were successful.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, is the Minister aware of the numerous reports from non-political organisations expressing a strong view, and supported by Members of Parliament for constituencies in the South? Those reports suggest that local authority houses which are sold should be replaced. Can the Minister tell me why, after a series of questions over a long period from Members of your Lordships' House asking for the old capital receipts of local authorities to be made available for building new council houses, under the new Local Government and Housing Bill the Government have reneged on all their previous commitments given in another place by previous Secretaries of State? The Government have decided to deduct £6 billion from the £8 billion assets of local authorities. Why have they behaved in such a disgraceful manner?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, again, I am afraid that I have to tell the noble Lord that that goes considerably wider than the Question on the Order Paper.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, I am sorry that the Minister will not answer. I have to submit to the House that these questions are strongly related. We are talking about the sale of council houses and one is entitled to draw the comparison with replacements. I am making the point that the Government have reneged on promises by successive Secretaries of State, some of whom are now Members of your Lordships' House. They have done the very opposite under the lastest local government Bill in denying the local authorities £6 billion of their own assets for building council houses. Will the Minister answer? Does not he consider that relevant?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, if the noble Lord would like to put down a Question on that specific matter, he may do so. The Question on the Order Paper concerns the sale of council houses. When he spoke—as did the noble Lord, Lord Graham of Edmonton—on replacements, I drew the attention of your Lordships' House to the fact that other people build houses as well as local authorities.

§ Lord Elwyn-Jones
My Lords, will the Minister please reconsider the use of the phrase "hooked on" in relation to my noble friend who asked a perfectly sensible and good question?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, the phrase "hooked on" seemed appropriate in the connection to which the noble Lord referred. The noble Lord, Lord Graham of Edmonton, is very keen on local authority building. However, on occasions he seems to omit to remember that housing associations and the private sector also provide dwellings.