HL Deb 07 December 1989 vol 513 cc1000-2

3.20 p.m.

Lord Monson asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether Nottinghamshire County Council is legally entitled to ban pupils at city technology colleges from attending music schools or drama workshops and from joining bands; and, if so, whether they will consider a change in the law.

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, the Government deplore the attitude adopted by Nottinghamshire Local Education Authority on this issue, but the Secretary of State for Education and Science has reluctantly concluded that there are no grounds for him to intervene.

Lord Monson

My Lords, I thank the noble Viscount for his reply, while expressing my disappointment that the Government seem reluctant to put right that injustice. Does he agree that whatever the strength and sincerity of a local authority's political convictions, there can be no excuse whatever for venting its spleen upon 11 and 12 year-old girls?

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord but there is no evidence that the authority is failing to perform a duty or acting unreasonably in the narrow sense in which the courts have defined that term. Although the LEA has the power to allow pupils at independent schools and CTCs to take part in workshops under the facilities, it has no duty to do so.

Baroness Blackstone

My Lords, is the Minister aware that CTCs have been established in a number of areas where there are already spare spaces in secondary schools? In view of the very considerable constraints on public expenditure, can he justify the establishment of those institutions? Does he not agree that, were they not to take up substantial amounts of public money, there would be more available for Nottinghamshire County Council to provide an adequate number of places in music schools, drama workshops and bands?

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, I am afraid that that question is rather outside the scope of the Question on the Order Paper, which has nothing to do with CTCs. It is to do with Nottinghamshire LEA's refusal to allow two pupils, one from a CTC and one from a private school, to attend a course at the South Nottinghamshire Music Centre.

Baroness David

My Lords, are the Minister and the House aware that only 2 per cent. of the pupils in Nottinghamshire county schools can get into the eleventh session workshop and that there is a very long waiting list of pupils from county schools? Is it therefore fair that they should not get in and pupils from the CTCs, whose parents have decided that they should opt out of the system, should go instead?

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, the Government have voiced their views on this ban. I can only say that parents and other electors in Nottingham will no doubt draw their own conclusions about the authority's attitude.

Lord Peston

My Lords, is the noble Viscount aware how absurd have been his answers to this Question? The CTCs were introduced by his Government. The problems which have emerged in this specific case were pointed out by several of us at a time when we begged the Government not to waste public money on these matters. The facts are—and the noble Viscount does not disagree with this—that the great scarcity of places in these drama and music workshops in Nottingham is because Nottingham does not have the money to provide more places. If there is a scarcity, any reasonable person would suggest that first priority would be given to the children in Nottingham schools and not to those who have opted out.

Viscount Davidson

My Lords, I can only repeat that this Question relates to the two cases in which Nottinghamshire LEA has refused to allow pupils respectively from a Nottinghamshire CTC and a private school to attend courses at the South Nottinghamshire Music Centre. I suggest that questions or comments on the wider issues of CTCs are well outwith the scope of this Question.