Teachers: Advisory Committee (Hansard, 4 December 1989)

§ Viscount Davidson
No, my Lords. The factors which led the Government to decide in 1985 not to reconstitute the Advisory Committee on the Supply and Education of Teachers still apply.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, that is not an unexpected reply, but is the Minister aware that when the Advisory Committee on the Supply and Education of Teachers was allowed to lapse by Sir Keith Joseph, as he then was, in 1985 it was suggested that it could be reconvened two years later? Since five years later the committee's projections with regard to teacher supply have come all too true would it not be sensible to establish a similar committee which could determine the facts in a professional manner to ensure that well-informed decisions were made in good time and to reconcile competing analyses about the true extent of teacher shortage?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, ACSET was established at a time when major changes in teacher education were in progress. Following the work of ACSET, the Council for the Accreditation of Teacher Education was established to advise the Secretary of State on teacher education. If the Secretary of State requires advice on specific questions such as would previously have been provided by ACSET he appoints an ad hoc body to provide the information, as he has done in, for example, the case of information technology and appraisal. The Government see no need for a standing body for that purpose.

§ Lord Taylor of Blackburn
My Lords, is the Minister aware of the outstanding service that was rendered previously? Is he also aware that a number of Secretaries of State had confidence in the committee and benefited from its advice? In view of the present situation in the teaching profession is this not the time to re-establish that body?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, I have said that the Government do not consider that to be the case. The Government collect a wide range of information from local authorities. The range of data available on the teaching profession is unparalleled. There was a considerable degree of agreement between the many surveys carried out this autumn, including the 596 department's own ad hoc survey, the Labour Party survey and a survey carried out by the BBC radio "Today" programme. Only the union survey produced different figures.

§ Lord Peston
My Lords, I am slightly surprised to hear from the noble Viscount that all the surveys showed the same result since I understood that they had reflected very different views of the present state of teacher supply. Would it not be wholly advantageous, not least to the Government, if instead of each year having a junior civil servant telephone all the local authorities to find out the position regarding the employment of teachers there was a body to provide the information in a professional manner? As well as being useful to the country, would that not also be of help to the Minister's right honourable friend the Secretary of State?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, that is a very interesting suggestion. I shall take it on board and pass it on to my right honourable friend.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, is the Minister aware that it is not just a question of finding out what the position is now, but also a question of planning ahead? Does he agree that we need to be able to plan future intakes of students for initial training and that one needs to look a great many years ahead for that purpose? That is what the DES seems to have failed abysmally to do.

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, that is exactly what the DES is doing. In November 1988 the department produced very tentative supply and demand projections for the mid-1990s in response to a request from the Select Committee. Those figures have recently been updated in response to a further request. On the basis of those projections we expect that overall teacher demand and supply will be broadly in balance. Current initial teacher training entry targets are being met in primary education and we foresee no shortages in the future.
In secondary education, current targets are not being met in key shortage subjects. Targets are adjusted for the future to reflect that. DES projections suggest that unless action is taken there will be deficits between demand and supply in certain subjects. We have made the forward projections and are now taking action to make sure that we put the situation right in the future.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the department's own projections for the Interim Advisory Committee on School Teachers' Pay and Conditions showed appalling shortages for 1995? Might that have been avoided had action been taken sooner?

§ Viscount Davidson
My Lords, that is exactly why the Government are taking the necessary action to put the matter right in 1995. I have a list of the actions which the Government are taking. I shall write to the noble Baroness with that information and place a copy in the Library.