HL Deb 04 December 1989 vol 513 cc601-3

2.55 p.m.

Lord Campbell of Croy asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they will prevent the export of live sheep to Spain to be slaughtered by methods not acceptable in the United Kingdom and in distressing transport conditions.

The Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Baroness Trumpington)

My Lords, the Government do not license the export of food animals to Spain and will not do so until that country has properly implemented the existing Community directives on welfare during international transport and on pre-slaughter stunning. Reports that sheep have been sent to Spain are being fully investigated.

Lord Campbell of Croy

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply. Is she aware of a recent case involving about 500 sheep which appeared to be flagrantly in breach of existing United Kingdom regulations? Can more be done to enforce the law to prevent great suffering by livestock in transit, especially when the new EC regulation comes into force?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, we are appalled at the seeming disregard for sheep's needs, as expressed in the article to which my noble friend refers. The existing EC directive on transport requires food and water to be offered at suitable intervals, which should not exceed 24 hours, unless the journey can be completed within a reasonable period. We have gone further by requiring the use of staging points for feeding and watering where the journey exceeds 18 hours. The Community is working on a number of proposals including the transport of animals. Our objective will be to negotiate high standards of welfare and for those to be rigorously enforced. In this connection it is reassuring to see that a Commission inspectorate is proposed.

Lord Gallacher

My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that people who make a living out of slaughtering animals in this country have described what is going on in Spain as stomach-churning? In view of that and the fact that this trade is likely to grow as far as concerns Britain because of changes in the sheepmeat regime, will she ask her right honourable friend to look at the excellent example given to this country over many years by the New Zealand Meat Board and possibly consider asking the Meat and Livestock Commission to constitute part of itself into an export board for this very purpose?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, we do not in fact have firm evidence of malpractice with regard to the remark about barbaric slaughter referred to by the noble Lord. However, we are awaiting confirmation from the Commission that Spain has properly implemented EC legislation on welfare at slaughter. The EC Commission is in contact with the Spanish Government over details of implementation of the EC directives which are not currently satisfied. I must tell the noble Lord that we are not free to continue our ban once the EC law is being properly implemented. I shall pass on his other suggestion to my right honourable friend.

Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone

My Lords, do I understand my noble friend rightly in saying that if these rather disturbing reports are true there has been a breach of regulations? Is so, what chances are there of successful prosecution?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, we are following up the matter through the RSPCA and the French authorities. We are helpless to prosecute over what has gone on outside this country.

Lord Walston

My Lords, can the Minister assure us that her department has sufficient information and power to ensure that sheep which have been consigned legitimately from this country to France are not then moved on to Spain without any authorisation from us; or is that something which it is impossible for the Ministry of Agriculture to monitor?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, once animals have crossed the Channel, enforcement of the EC transport directive is a matter for other governments. MAFF officials do not follow consignments into other member states, but there has been liaison with the French veterinary service over surveillance of our exports.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, is it not the case that the Commission has the power to prosecute where the evidence is clear? Can the noble Baroness tell us whether evidence has been submitted to the Commission and whether any steps are being taken in this matter?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, my only information has come through the article in The Sunday Times which needs reinforcement as to its truth. I am sorry but I have forgotten the other part of the noble Lord's question.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, I asked whether the Commission is proposing to prosecute and, if the evidence is clear, why it is not doing so.

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, we have withdrawn licences from those who it is believed are offending against the regulations with regard to our exports to Spain.

Lord Campbell of Croy

My Lords, my noble friend said that the information was simply an article in The Sunday Times. Can she get in touch with the Scottish Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals which drew this case to my attention because the sheep originated in Scotland?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, under the Export of Animals (Protection) Order 1981 the Minister shall not grant a licence unless satisfied that the arrangements for transporting the animals to their final destination protect them from unnecessary suffering. That also applies to Scotland.

Lord Morris

My Lords, do the EC standards for the transportation of live sheep bear any relationship to the standard set by British Rail for transport of live human beings?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, I really do not think that I need answer that.