§ 2.45 p.m.
§ Baroness Strange asked Her Majesty's Government:
§ How many schools, under the terms of the Education Reform Act 1988, have voted to opt out of local authority control.
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, to date, 39 schools have voted to apply for grant maintained status, and a further 10 will be holding ballots on the issue in the near future. I expect many more to follow.
§ Baroness StrangeMy Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for his encouraging and informative reply. Can he tell me when the schools which have voted to opt out will become grant maintained?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, the eight schools which have already been approved by my right honourable friend will become grant maintained in September. I understand that if others are approved before the end of May, they will also be able to take up their new status in September of this year.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, will the Minister explain to the House how he knows that many more schools will follow?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I expect that many more schools will follow. Interest in applying for grant maintained status remains buoyant with many inquiries directed to the department. I expect those inquiries to increase still further after September when the first grant maintained schools have opened for business.
§ Lord Dormand of EasingtonMy Lords, in view of the considerable difficulties which are now being experienced in the implementation of the national curriculum, what advantage is there in opting out?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I am sorry, I did not hear the question.
§ Lord Dormand of EasingtonMy Lords, in view of the considerable difficulties which are now arising in connection with the implementation of the national curriculum, what advantages are there in opting out?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I do not think that question applies at all.
The Lord Bishop of ManchesterMy Lords, does the Minister appreciate that every time a school opts out, for whatever reason—whether it is threatened with closure or it sees certain advantages in opting out—it creates enormous difficulties for local education authorities? Is the Minister further aware that it will be even more difficult in the years ahead to secure people of ability and quality to serve in educational administration, if schools opt out in substantial numbers in this way?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, the grant maintained schools policy means greater choice for parents. That will introduce healthy competition and lead to higher standards in school provision generally. I should have thought that the right reverend Prelate would like to see that. The policy gives governing bodies and parents greater freedom to decide priorities and to take their school in the direction that they think is best for it.
§ Baroness DavidMy Lords, how many of the schools that have thought of opting out have been involved in plans for reorganisation by local authorities?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I am afraid that I do not have the exact figues, but I shall write to the noble Baroness.
§ Lord Campbell of AllowayMy Lords, in view of the question of the right reverend Prelate, does the 1269 Minister agree that if some local authorities find themselves in difficulties they are the authors of those difficulties?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I have to agree with my noble friend.
§ Lord GlenamaraMy Lords, will the Minister say why opting out will lead to a higher standard generally, as he put it?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, there will be a greater amount of competition, and that will lead to a higher standard generally.
§ The Earl of LauderdaleMy Lords, does my noble friend agree that a very helpful pamphlet has been written on this subject by Mr. Frank Field of the Labour Party? That pamphlet recommends that church schools should opt out whenever they can.
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I am aware of that pamphlet.
The Lord Bishop of ManchesterMy Lords, is the Minister further aware that the main thesis of that pamphlet on opting out has been denied by the Church of England Board of Education?
§ Viscount DavidsonNo, my Lords, I was not aware of that.
§ Lord Hailsham of Saint MaryleboneMy Lords, having regard to the nature of the Question on the Order Paper, is it not highly to be deprecated to have a rerun of our recent debates on the Education Bill?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I am quite happy to have a rerun because I think that we are doing rather well.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, if by peradventure schools which opt out find themselves in grave difficulties, as it is anticipated could happen in some cases, what provisions will there be for them to return to local authority control and be looked after by the elected representatives of the area?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, that question is purely hypothetical.
§ Lord PestonMy Lords, perhaps I may remind the noble Viscount that there is no provision for re-entry in the Education Reform Act as passed. Is the Minister's department monitoring opting out, particularly with a view to discovering whether the effect of opting out will be to raise costs for the local authority left with the remaining schools and therefore placing an added burden on ratepayers—no, I beg your pardon, not ratepayers, poll tax payers—in the future?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I think that the House would like to know that 64 schools from 35 local authorities have engaged in applications for 1270 GM status. Of those schools 22 are in Conservative areas, 24 in Labour areas, one is in an SLD area and 17 are in areas where no one party has overall control. So far as concerns finance, the Government have made clear their intention that schools should be neither better nor worse off financially if they become grant maintained.
§ Lord PestonMy Lords, may I pursue the matter a little further? That was not my question. I am perfectly well aware of that, and of the political point which the Minister has made. My question followed the point which was made earlier. IF schools opt out because they do not care for what their local authority plans to do—which I should have thought, and let us stick to the Conservative authorities, is not necessarily detrimental to what is happening locally—then are they not in principle adding to the costs of that local authority?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, yes, why?
§ Lord PestonMy Lords, I cannot possibly answer the question but I could put a further question. Does the Minister agree that we must assume that local authorities exist to try to run their education services efficiently? If we make that assumption—and solely for the sake of the noble Viscount I stick to Conservative authorities—does he agree that costs will rise as a result?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, the noble Lord might assume that. I might assume the opposite.