Bathing Water Improvements: Costs (Hansard, 5 April 1989)

The Minister of State, Department of the Environment (The Earl of Caithness)
My Lords, we are discussing with water authorities the practical and financial implications of bringing non-complying waters up to the directive's standards by 1995. In 1989–90, water authorities expect to spend over £100 million on schemes to improve bathing waters. After privatisation, the individual utility companies will be responsible for carrying out the work, while the National Rivers Authority will ensure that improvement programmes are implemented and satisfy bathing water quality standards.

§ Lord Ezra
My Lords, will the Minister first indicate why it has taken so long to get our bathing beaches up to the standards of other countries, especially as measures to that effect were envisaged as long ago as 1973 in the Control of Pollution Act? Secondly, is it right that the cost of getting our beaches up to the right standard should be borne exclusively by the users of water? Should they not be borne by the public at large which benefits from those beaches?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, as for the time of getting the beaches up to the right standard, it would have helped if the Labour Party, with a little bit of Liberal support, had nominated some beaches before 1979 when we took power. We were the first Government to do so. We were again behind to start with. We are well up to the average standard of Europe. We are the only country to have put a decent and full programme, designed to meet the standards in full, before the Commission.

§ Lord Nugent of Guildford
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the standard of other countries, to which the noble Lord, Lord Ezra, referred, gives a different picture to the standard being asked for by the European Commission? Is he aware that most of us have personal experience of bathing in the waters of the Mediterranean from the countries round about—France, Italy, Greece and Spain—where the waters are anything but clean? Is my noble friend aware that he is right to say that our programme of cleaning up our bathing beaches is a vigorous one 1092 and is effectively cleaning up the huge arrears that we inherited?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend. The total cost of cleaning up the bathing waters to meet the standards in full will cost about £1 billion.

§ Lord Mason of Barnsley
My Lords, is the Minister aware that of the 354 designated beaches in Britain which should conform to the Common Market directive, only 251 do so? That means that we have more than 100 beaches that do not conform to the Common Market directive. Do any of them constitute a health hazard? Are any of them threatened with closure?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, on 21st February I answered a Question about the quality of bathing waters in 1988. In England, Northern Ireland and Wales 254 bathing waters out of 380 met the standard. That was a substantial improvement on the 1987 figures when 206 out of 370 met the standards. As to a health hazard, the chances of catching any disease from swimming in an area that does not meet the standards is very small. If the water authority considers that the bathing water is unsafe, I am sure that it will seek medical advice.

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, is it not true that the Government are presently talking to the water authorities about accelerating their programme for cleaning up our beaches? Is it not also true that the establishment of the NRA will be much more effective in ensuring the delivery of such a programme? Will my noble friend give some figures which compare the 1988 expenditure with that of 1979?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, the NRA will be of enormous benefit to drinking water and bathing water customers. We seek to intensify the programme of improvements to bathing waters so that we meet the directive in full by 1995.

§ Lord Rochester
My Lords, will the Minister answer the second part of the question that he was asked by my noble friend Lord Ezra relating to who should bear the cost of cleaning up such beaches?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I thought that the noble Lord asked me three questions of which I answered two. On the third point, it is right that the water authorities' customers should be responsible for meeting the cost.

§ Lord Eden of Winton
My Lords, further to the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Mason, am I correct in saying that of all the resorts Bournemouth is the only one whose entire beach area has been awarded the blue flag of purity?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I am not sure that my noble friend is entirely right. I do not have the up-to-date situation. I shall look into it and write to him.

§ Lord McIntosh of Haringey
My Lords, will the Minister acknowledge that in his second attempt to answer the Question of the noble Lord, Lord Ezra, he gave a totally unsatisfactory reply? He did not explain why the consumers of water should be required to pay for the historical neglect of our beaches which we acknowledge to have been going on for a very long time. Will he now explain why the public as a whole rather than the consumers should be required to pay for the cleaning up of our beaches?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, with water we are talking about virtually the same number of people. But it is right that the customers, the polluters, should pay, and the charge be put on to the customers.

The Earl of Halsbury
My Lords, are we not in danger of over-concentration on beaches because of objectionable matter that becomes stranded on them as a result of the high tides around our coast? Like myself, noble Lords might go snorkelling in the Mediterranean. Will the noble Earl not agree that there is nothing on the beaches there because the sea is tideless? But, my goodness, underwater the horrors that we encounter have to be seen to be believed.

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I am sure the whole House will agree with me that the bravery of the noble Earl in going snorkelling in those waters is to be commended.

§ The Earl of Onslow
My Lords, can my noble friend please tell me which members of the public are not consumers of water? Surely the difference is, to put it mildly, semantic.

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I believe that most of us consume water.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, with regard to the noble Earl's unjustified references to the Labour Party, is he not aware that beaches, roads, streets, parks, trains and everywhere else have been dirtier since the present Government came to power 10 years ago? Can he give the House a guarantee that after privatisation the private owners will be able to meet the cost of making the beaches cleaner? He has not done that so far.

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I do not think that I was wrong in saying that the Labour Party had not nominated any bathing beaches or bathing waters although the directive came into force early in 1976. There were three years in which the Labour Party could have got its act together but it did not do so.
With regard to privatisation and whether the utility companies in the future will be able to meet the cost, I am sure that they will. But that is also a subject we shall discuss in great detail in the near future.

§ The Earl of Lauderdale
My Lords, would my noble friend not agree that the cleanest beaches in the 1094 country are those of Caithness but that they are too cold for bathing?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I believe that the beaches in Caithness are of worldwide repute but my noble friend is absolutely right that there is not a nominated bathing water in Caithness.

§ Lord Mackie of Benshie
My Lords, can the Minister tell the House whether the main cause of beaches not being up to standard is sewage pollution? Will he say what is the main cause?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, to a large extent it is sewage pollution from the short sea outfalls built by our Victorian predecessors. Those out falls are not satisfactory. But the long sea outfalls which are replacing them are environmentally satisfactory.