Kurds: Human Rights (Hansard, 31 October 1988)

§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Glenarthur)
My Lords, we are aware of the suffering of the Kurdish people in Iraq, and of the Kurdish refugees in Turkey, as a result of military operations by the Iraqi Government. We have made clear to the Iraqi Government our total opposition to these actions.

§ Lord Stewart of Fulham
My Lords, in view of the denial of human rights to many of the Kurdish people and the use of chemical weapons, has that matter not become one of universal international importance? Are the Government going to take any action at the United Nations?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, of course we utterly condemn the use of chemical warfare from whatever source. It is a major threat to international security. We condemned chemical warfare by Iran and Iraq in the Iran-Iraq conflict, especially by Iraq against Iranian civilians. The Foreign Office issued a statement about all that on 2nd September. We made clear our views to the Iraqi Ambassador on 6th and 8th October, as did my right honourable and learned friend the Foreign Secretary to the Iraqi Minister of State for Foreign Affairs on 21st September. We have also joined in the United Nations' call for an authoritative independent investigation into chemical warfare by Iraq.

§ Lord Kilbracken
My Lords, the Minister mentioned gas attacks by the Iraqis on the Iranian forces, but he must be aware of the much more serious attacks on the Kurdish people of Iraq who are Iraqi citizens. 1 have received an eye witness report from the refugee camps in Turkey. Are the Government taking serious note of the extremely bad conditions under which the Kurdish refugees from Iraq gas attacks are being held? Will they take every possible step to alleviate them by ensuring, in this order of priority, the supply of blankets, medical equipment and food?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I note what the noble Lord says. With regard to chemical warfare, we believe that an independent mission to try to establish what has happened is the best way forward. Security Council Resolution 620 encourages the Secretary-General to send a mission to investigate the allegations of the use of chemical warfare. That is the type of thing which should be used in cases such as this. We deplore Iraq's refusal to accept such a mission.

§ Baroness Ewart-Biggs
My Lords, can the Minister say whether it is true that the Turkish Government are also reluctant to allow an investigative mission into their country? If so, what reasons do they give? What pressure have the British Government brought to bear on the Turkish Government to allow such a mission into Turkey to investigate the situation?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, so far as I know that is not the case. The Turks do not feel it possible to co-operate with international relief agencies. We want to try to ensure that it is possible for humanitarian assistance, such as that to which the noble Lord, Lord Kilbracken, referred, to reach those in need of it. We are in constant touch with the Turkish Government, international agencies and other potential donor governments about what practical help we can offer.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, we support all the initiatives and actions taken by the 6 Government in this matter and also their strong condemnation of the use of chemical weapons. In the light of those actions by the Government, why is a government Minister, Mr. Tony Newton, going to Iraq this week to negotiate trade credits with that government?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, it is of course important to bear in mind that despite the examples to which the noble Lord, Lord Kilbracken, and other noble Lords have referred of immense dissatisfaction with the way in which Iraq is alleged to have performed in these cases, the wider world of trade goes on. Whether or not anything will come of this visit is a matter for the visitor to decide, and not for me. However, it is vital that we should not lose sight of the importance of developing a political dialogue and other relationships with Iraq and putting them on a sounder footing. Iraq is a major regional power. It has strong political and economic prospects. However, the noble Lord is quite right in saying that allegations of chemical warfare being used must cast a cloud over our relationships.

§ Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone
My Lords, is not the whole history of the Kurdish people absolutely heartrending? They have no country of their own and they have been persecuted by every country which has been responsible for their conditions.

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, my noble and learned friend is quite right; theirs is a history of tragedy. That is why we want to try to do what we can to ensure that they have a more fulfilling future.

§ Lord McNair
My Lords, follow:ng the question from the noble and learned Lord, perhaps 1 may ask whether the Minister and the Government agree that some improvement in the position of the Kurds should form an integral part of any settlement of the Gulf War.

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, with respect, I think that is slightly wide of the immediate Question. The Iran-Iraq talks have started up again in Geneva today. Whether or not those ultimately lead to some improvement in the condition of the Kurds is an interesting possibility, but I am not sure that the problems are directly related.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, Mr. Newton is an able and fairly senior member of the Government. If he is visiting Iraq this week, will the noble Lord convey to his right honourable and learned friend the Foreign Secretary the need for Mr. Newton, while he is there, to make representations on these matters which concern the House and which cause distress throughout the country and internationally?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I assure the noble Lord that we shall lose no time at all in making the kinds of representations that he feels are necessary.

The Earl of Selkirk
My Lords, can my noble friend say whether there is any form of Kurdish authority 7 with which we can have discussions or from which we can get the full story of what is happening in the Kurdish lands?

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, I am afraid I do not know precisely to whom it would be proper to address such representations, but I shall certainly make inquiries and let my noble friend know.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that although the Kurdish people have suffered appallingly, they are not the only people suffering as refugees? The number of refugees created in the past five or six years all over the world is desperate. Will the Government be prepared to assist the Secretary-General of the United Nations to create an investigating force which would examine the atrocities being committed in some parts of Israel by Israeli people and in some parts of the Arab land on the West Bank, with people punishing others for nothing? Perhaps we ought to take a firmer stand and bring this item more forcefully to the agenda of the United Nations, to assist the Secretary-General.

§ Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, it is very difficult to know what could be more on the agenda of the United Nations. As I have said, the United Nations produced Resolution 620 but the Iraqis in this case refused to accept a mission. It is on the agenda and will remain so.