Chile: UK Relations (Hansard, 26 October 1988)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Energy (Baroness Hooper)
My Lords, we have frequent discussions with the United States Administration about Latin America, including Chile. The content of these remain confidential to both governments.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, is it not the case that before the recent election in Chile the British Government were strengthening the hand of the dictator General Pinochet by supplying him with arms and selling him naval ships while the United States Government were openly financing the support of the opposition to the general?

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, we have no disagreement with the United States as regards Chile. We both wish to see an early return to democracy and a better human rights record. Differences in approach should not mask the reality of our aim.

§ Viscount Montgomery of Alamein
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the recent plebiscite in Chile was conducted on the most impeccable lines and that even the most prejudiced of observers agree that there were no improprieties whatever? Is my noble friend also aware that the course is now set for the return of Chile to full democratic procedures which will be welcomed by both friend and foe of Chile alike?

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for his constructive and optimistic approach based upon his considerable and first-hand knowledge of Chile and of Latin America in general. Together with the United States and our European Community partners, we certainly welcome the opportunity that the people of Chile were given to express their will; for the way in which that plebiscite was conducted; and for the prompt recognition of the result by the government. We now wish to see an orderly and peaceful restoration of democracy.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, have the Government reviewed their policy as regards arms sales to Chile following the plebiscite? Can the noble Baroness tell the House what is the justification for selling arms to a squalid and anti-democratic military dictatorship?

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, since the plebiscite on 5th October we have considered our policy towards Chile and we see no reason to change it, especially in the light of the moves towards democracy. In fact our main sales have been to the Chilean navy. For example, four second-hand frigates of 1960s' vintage have been sold. We take great care not to approve items that we judge likely to be used for internal repression. It has been the policy of successive British governments not to disclose details of potential defence sales.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, will the noble Baroness confirm that what that really means is that notwithstanding the fact that General Pinochet remains as a military dictator, Her Majesty's Government will continue to sell arms to that government?

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, our policy does not imply approval of Chile's poor human rights record in any way.

§ Viscount Montgomery of Alamein
My Lords, does my noble friend not agree that Great Britain has had an extraordinarily long-standing relationship—it has lasted 170 years—with the Chilean navy? Indeed, it was a British admiral who participated in the formation of this great service. It can hardly be the case in a country with over 3,000 miles of coastline that the navy which operates on the sea has oppressed the natives.

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, my noble friend is correct. We have a long-established relationship with the Chilean navy. We are now satisfied that our defence sales policy is both responsible and correct. In any event the United Kingdom is not a major supplier to Chile.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, will the noble Baroness not agree that to supply arms to a dictatorial regime is strengthening that dictatorship irrespective of whether those arms are used against the internal population? Does she not further agree that the United States has made it quite plain that it regards the supply of arms to Chile as dangerously unbalancing the power structure in the whole of Latin America? In the light of the Minister's previous answer can she tell us what signs she sees today of a return to democracy in Chile despite the fact that General Pinochet is still in power and apparently intends to remain so?

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, the plebiscite that was held recently was not an election. The arrangements for the transition to democracy have been detailed. It is expected that the election will take place in December of next year and that General Pinochet will remain in power until March 1990 when the newly-elected government will take over.
I cannot accept the noble Lord's view that there is any effect on the regional balance caused by the sales of arms by the United Kingdom. As I have said, we are satisfied that our policy is both responsible and correct. We take considerable care to ensure that any 1605 items sold are not those that can be used for internal repression. We must also be ready to recognise improvements where they are established in order to encourage further progress.

§ Lord Bonham-Carter
My Lords, does the noble Baroness not agree that a long-established relationship is a singularly weak ground for supplying arms to an extremely disagreeable regime? Will she agree that we would have been unwise to supply arms to Italy and Germany with whom we had a very long established relationship before the war? Therefore, to fall back on a long-established relationship as justification for supplying arms to a dictatorial regime which shows few signs of improving its daily practice is surely something of which the Minister cannot approve.

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, I do not think that my noble friend or I were using the long-established relationship as any kind of justification for some of the effects of the regime in Chile. We nevertheless do not believe that our arms policy towards Chile has encouraged the dislikable elements of that regime.