Respite Care: Income Support Policy (Hansard, 19 October 1988)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Social Security (Lord Skelmersdale)
My Lords, the Government's policy is to make income support available to eligible individuals entering accommodation for respite care. Where this accommodation is a hostel they are entitled to help towards the charge plus meals up to a limit of £70 or £87.50 if they are elderly or disabled.

§ The Countess of Mar
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his reply. Perhaps he will forgive me if I am wrong in assuming that the introduction of income support in replacement for social security benefits was supposed to make the system simpler to operate? Can he explain why there are more than 120 different ways of calculating income support for people going into respite care? Can he give some hope to these people, who already suffer terrible hardship and complexity in their lives, that there will be some changes in the rules regarding benefit weeks and the days on which they are paid for their hostel charges?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, the noble Countess is quite right. The change of circumstance rules governing the rate of payment in each benefit week have been simplified in the changeover from supplementary benefit to income support in line with the general approach to the new income support scheme. The noble Countess very kindly tipped me off about 120 different ways of paying those benefits. I have had them investigated and I cannot see that it is possible either under the new or the old system for there to be 120 different ways. However, there are different rules for calculating the weekly amount of 1122 benefit for those in registered homes and those in hostels or lodgings, of which the latter are the subject of the noble Countess's Question. If she is aware of any other difficulties of specific cases, I shall of course have them looked into.

§ Lord Carter
My Lords, does the Minister agree that the situation is that if a disabled person is in receipt of income support and he goes into respite care and his benefit pay day is a Monday, if he goes in on a Sunday and comes out on a Tuesday he will receive a full week's benefit; but if he goes in on a Tuesday and comes out on a Sunday—in other words, if he is not in on his benefit day—he will not receive any benefit at all? Does that not convert the whole system into a lottery?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, no, I do not believe it does, because if a person is in respite care for a very short period he will be eligible for all the social security benefits which he was receiving while at home. As regards the weekly payments either in arrears or in advance, I believe that it is all a question of swings and roundabouts. Some people will benefit from the new rules if they are paid in arrears and are in a hostel for only the last day of their benefit week because they will receive benefit at the hostel rate for the whole week. Therefore, there are rather more gainers than losers in all this.

§ Lord Carter
My Lords, is the noble Lord suggesting that such people are on a swing or a roundabout? Which does he advise?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, unfortunately the rules and the administration prevent an individual applicant from deciding whether to be on a swing or a roundabout.

§ Baroness Jeger
My Lords, can the Minister tell us whether he is taking any steps to inform the exhausted carers of disabled and chronically ill people of the complications to which he has referred? Is it not a fact that many of them find it very difficult to understand their rights in these matters? Can he also tell us whether it is the case that children who go into respite care do not receive benefit unless they go into a local authority hostel and that they lose that benefit if they go into a voluntary organisation for care? Surely if that is the case it does not seem reasonable or fair.

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, in partial answer I should say that the local officers in the social security benefit offices have been very well trained. I know that the noble Countess has said that there are some glaring alternatives to this particular statement and she will presumably be letting me know where she knows of such glaring errors.
As regards children, I repeat that anybody eligible for social security benefits in their own homes will continue to take them when they go into respite care.

§ The Countess of Mar
My Lords, does the noble Lord appreciate that the roundabouts and swings happen to concern individual people and that 1123 payments can vary by up to £50 a week? When one is on one's beam ends £50 a week is a lot of money. Does he agree that in the days of supplementary benefit, payment could be on a daily basis? Perhaps I may ask him whether he would look into altering the payment of income support for people in hostels back to a daily basis, as that would simplify matters both for the social security offices and the people concerned.

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, I shall most certainly look at the matter but my current advice is that to put people who are to go into board and lodgings and hostels on to a daily basis would, far from simplifying matters, make them a lot more complicated. I repeat what I said about the difference between hostel and board and lodging arrangements and the residential care and nursing homes arrangements, which are quite different.

§ Lord Glenamara
My Lords, has the noble Lord seen the figures made public today which show that one-third of all the children in Britain are living in poverty? Why do the Government persist in erecting these complicated bureaucratic barriers against channelling resources to that grossly underprivileged section of our community?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, I have indeed seen the reports in the newspapers today of the CPAG's report but I should advise the noble Lord that that is rather a different question from the one on the Order Paper.

§ Lord Banks
My Lords, can the noble Lord say what kind of response the Government have had to the consultative document on hostel charges and when they expect to produce proposals based upon their reflections on the response?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, not surprisingly we have had a large number of responses and we intend to make a decision on the consultative paper known shortly.