§ Baroness Burton of Coventry asked Her Majesty's Government:
§ Whether they will make a Statement on the air matters discussed and progress made at the informal meeting of EC Transport Ministers on 29th and 30th September; and whether they can confirm that the next meeting of the Transport Ministers' Council is on 26th October and will indicate the main air matters on the agenda.
§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Transport (Lord Brabazon of Tara)My Lords, the presidency reported on progress towards revision of the inter-regional air services directive and the Commission announced its intention to table the proposal on air traffic control at the next meeting of the transport council which is scheduled for 26th October. Air transport is due to be taken at that meeting as an item of any other business.
§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, does the Minister feel that he could give the House any detail on progress made towards the revision of the interregional air services directive? Secondly, as chairman of the Permanent Commission of Eurocontrol, does he believe that the commission is making a firm and definite contribution towards the co-ordination of air traffic in Europe? Finally, does he feel that some countries are not being as helpful as they might be in that respect, seeming to believe that nationalism is more important than co-operation?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, on the first question, the commission's proposal is for an amendment to the 1983 directive on the regional air services agreement. It would remove the 70-seat and 30-tonne weight limit; it would remove the 300 kilometre minimum route length; and it would remove the protection for existing direct and parallel services and would permit fifth freedoms. It is hoped that this will be put to the Council of Ministers at the December meeting and we must hope that progress can be made on it. It is of course only an interim measure before the second stage of the entire package comes into force in 1990.
On Eurocontrol matters, I believe that there is a new sense of urgency among colleagues in Europe that this problem needs to be tackled. I was encouraged by the reception of the proposals which we put forward in the July meeting. I am encouraged by the fact that the ECAC meeting tomorrow of Transport Ministers will be devoted solely to the subject of air traffic control. But I shall look forward 1118 to seeing what comes forward at the Eurocontrol meeting in November as to what can be done to improve the situation.
§ Lord Carmichael of KelvingroveMy Lords, the Minister will be aware that there was also a report that IATA would he meeting NATO to discuss air space use by the military forces. is the Minister aware that Sir Colin Marshall said that in America something like 3 per cent. extra flying was required because of military flying, whereas in Europe it is about 12 per cent. additional flying miles? Can the Minister say whether this meeting was actually held and, if so, what the result was?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, I am afraid that I cannot precisely answer the noble Lord's question. I am well aware that military air space is very much in the minds of European authorities. In this country we are fortunate that we have a joint military-civil operation in national air traffic services. I do not believe that there is much of a problem in this country. If there is, it is kept continually under review and concessions have been made and will continue to be made by the military. In Europe there are problem areas which should be tackled, particularly in Germany. I hope that the various meetings which take place will result in something.