Construction Industry: Apprentice Training (Hansard, 17 May 1988)

§ The Minister of State for Defence Procurement (Lord Trefgarne)
My Lords, Ministers received a report last week on the board's action plan on skill shortages which included news that in the last financial year it had recruited 22,000 first year YTS trainees (the majority of whom will be apprentices) under its own managing agency, exceeding the target agreed with Ministers last year.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, is the Minister aware that I am grateful for that reply as are other people involved in the building industry, both in the public and private sectors? However, he must be aware of the number of bodies involved in the building industry which have expressed deep concern about the future provision of skilled men in the industry, and that there may not be sufficient to carry out the necessary redevelopment programmes in our cities. May I ask the Minister whether the Government will keep the matter under review, to prevent any slip backwards in what looks like a very welcome progression towards the objectives which we so desire?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, on skill shortages, evidence suggests that the shortages are concentrated in certain occupations and areas of the country. For example in London and the South East the CITB is researching particular problems of attracting youngsters into construction and will be reporting this summer.

§ Lord Mellish
My Lords, is the Minister aware that some of us who have experience of these matters happen to know that the CITB is an example of what a training board should be about? Its work in the past has been quite dramatic and brilliant. Can the Minister tell me how close are the links between the CITB and the Manpower Services Commission? What sort of co-operation is there, and what plans are there to extend what the CITB is doing across the country?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, the CITB is one of half a dozen or so industry training boards and the main driving force behind the CITB are the employers in the industry concerned. However, the Government are playing their part by providing some £150 million towards the costs of the YTS scheme to which I have referred.

§ Baroness Turner of Camden
My Lords, does the Minister not agree that the accident rates in the construction industry are unacceptably high? Does he not also agree that adequate training could make some contribution towards diminishing those statistics? Can he give the House an assurance that health and safety training will have a special place in training in this industry?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, I agree, of course, that the industry is no place for untrained cowboys. That is why the role of the CITB is so important. I welcome the favourable comments that have been made about the board's activities.

§ Lord Graham of Edmonton
My Lords, is the Minister aware that when his ministerial colleague, Mr. David Trippier, met members of the Federation of Master Builders earlier this year, he warmly applauded their idea that apprentices should be apprenticed to the industry and not to individual companies? Will the Minister comment on that? Further, will the Minister acknowledge that many of the skilled employees in the construction industry are now self-employed? What is the Minister doing to encourage larger companies to assist in the training of more skilled workpeople?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, the main impetus behind the training needed for this industry, as it is for others, comes from the employers themselves through the medium of this training board. Clearly their activities have not been without success—witness the encouraging figures I was able to report earlier.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, I am sure that the Minister must be aware that doubts have been expressed about the training schemes under the CITB and YTS which are of only two years' duration. Those involved in the industry have expressed the view that, in order to produce a finished product that period is on the short side. They feel that three years would be more in keeping with producing a skilled operative. Will the Minister keep that situation under review and, if necessary, make a change when time and resources allow?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, it is, of course, important that whatever training is provided is 180 relevant to the needs of the industry concerned. The length of training is not the only factor to be taken into account. It is also important that the young people concerned acquire the right skills.