Inner London Youth Services: Funding (Hansard, 21 March 1988)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Education and Science (Baroness Hooper)
My Lords, under the proposals announced by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science on 4th February, each of the inner London councils will become the local education authority for its area and will therefore be responsible for provision and funding of its local youth services.

§ Lord Newall
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. Perhaps I may ask whether she is aware that there are 713 voluntary youth organisations in London and that when the boroughs take over responsibility for the running of these youth clubs they are bound to give them a low priority. That will mean thousands of young people being allowed to go on the streets and turning to crime.

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his supplementary question. I am not sure that I agree with the suggestion that this service will be given a low priority. The voluntary sector provides a very valuable and highly regarded service in this area. The Government believe that a continuing statutory—voluntary partnership in the delivery of the youth service within the boroughs will lead to good value for money. This partnership is well established 2 and there is every reason to believe that it will be maintained in inner London as in other parts of the country.

§ Baroness Seear
My Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that in many of the boroughs where the need for youth service is at its very greatest—for example, Brixton, Lambeth and Tower Hamlets—the financing of it will be an almost impossible burden for those boroughs?

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, in asking the boroughs of inner London to produce development plans for the whole of the education services, consideration will be given to the provision that they are suggesting in the youth service area. I am setting up arrangements for meetings with representatives of voluntary organisations to hear their ideas. It is still early days; but there will be full consultation and dialogue. The best possible arrangements will be made which may well include co-operation between two or more boroughs.

§ Lord Mellish
My Lords, while trying to understand the reasons for the Government abolishing ILEA, is the Minister aware that the average teacher in London, especially in the inner cities, is absolutely appalled at the thought that the administration of education is to be handed over to certain boroughs? The boroughs are not competent to run the disposal of rubbish. The Government cannot continue to talk in the way that they are at the moment. There will have to be some unitary authorities responsible for running the schools. It is madness to think that the boroughs can undertake the tasks that ILEA has been doing.

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, the noble Lord's question goes rather wide of the Question on the Order Paper. Nevertheless, to reassure the noble Lord, I would point out that the Secretary of State is going through a series of meetings with representatives of local boroughs as well as with representatives of ILEA. Guidance will be issued after Royal Assent. Development plans will have to be submitted by each local borough and vetted by the department. There is a special unit in the department to help and advise 3 boroughs that lack experience. These moves, together with the general reforms planned in the Education Reform Bill shortly to come before your Lordships, will lead, I believe, to finding a satisfactory solution.

§ Baroness Faithfull
My Lords, in the light of what my noble friend has said, can she give an assurance that there will not be a gap between the time that ILEA gives up and the local authorities take over when there is no money for the youth clubs and youth leaders? I regret to have to say that youth leaders are already leaving the London youth service because of the lack of security. Bearing in mind that a number of the clubs have children from different boroughs, will there be disagreement among the boroughs as to who should pay for the clubs?

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, the Government will be asking for development plans for each borough to be presented before the end of February of next year in relation to the provision for April 1990. We believe that in this way there will be plenty of time to cover any "gap period" to which my noble friend refers.

§ Lord Molloy
Is the noble Baroness aware that the voluntary service with which many of us have been concerned over the years has played a vital part in character-building among the young folk of Greater London? Because the Government wish to destroy ILEA, why should they wish equally to destroy something which is noted for character-building in this great city? Will the Minister be gracious enough to give the House the assurance that she will convey that information to the Secretary of State?

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, not only is the Secretary of State aware; we believe also that local councils are aware of the youth service machinery already in place in their areas. We believe that the voluntary sector, working with local councils, will be closer to the needs of communities and that there will be appreciation of the effective work undertaken by voluntary organisations in those communities. Furthermore, local communities will be able to bring pressure to bear on their local councils to sustain the work of voluntary organisations serving their needs which, as I have already said, perform an extremely valuable role.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, can the Minister tell us a little more about how it is expected that this service will be funded in 1990? At the moment the DoE has set GREA at £13.5 million for youth provision while ILEA has budgeted for £36.5 million, a great deal of which goes in grants to just those voluntary bodies that the noble Lord, Lord Newall, asked about, such as the London federation of youth clubs and the London adventure playground association. These could well collapse if that same grant is to be kept up. How will the funding be done?

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, the boroughs will need to review the organisation and cost of the youth service and the other services that they will be undertaking. The voluntary sector of the youth 4 service believes that it provides a good, cost-effective service to young people. We agree that individual organisations must ensure that all the facts about their achievements are well known to the boroughs. I believe that in many cases they are. They will be considering, as will the special unit within the department, how the department can best assist in ensuring that dialogue takes place and adequate provision results.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, the Minister has not replied to my question. Will there be a commitment from the Government that funds will be available for these extremely good clubs in 1990?

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, the Government will provide funding for the whole of the education service. We are taking every possible step to ensure that the youth service is included within the general arrangements and that it is not forgotten or left aside.

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, is it not true that a vast majority of the boroughs in this country have never been under the control of ILEA or anything like that, but that they have always conducted their education and youth services extremely well?

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, the noble Viscount has raised an important point. We wish to emphasise the fact that we believe that the youth service in particular can be better handled at a more local level.

Lord Wallace of Coslany
My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that the abolition of ILEA is very much involved in this Question? Is she further aware that I have recently received a letter from a former Conservative opponent asking me to do my best to assist the House of Lords to stop the Government going ahead?

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, that question is wide of the original Question, but I shall bear in mind the noble Lord's remarks.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, the noble Baroness has been helpful to the House—and perhaps the Government Chief Whip will be patient for a moment— in answering important questions about the service. However, a degree of confusion arises as a result of the exchanges and clarification is needed. The voluntary youth services are immensely important in the development of the life of London over the next few years. Will she ask her right honourable friend to consider publishing a White Paper as soon as possible giving details of the plans that the Government have in mind, and relating especially to funding?

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, in view of the time limits which are likely to be put upon us, and in view of the need to provide for the "gap period", to which my noble friend Lady Faithful referred, we believe that at this stage it is best to get on with matters. The consultation and dialogue will certainly continue and I believe that the noble Lord's point will be met by the issue of guidance, which it is intended to publish after Royal Assent.