HL Deb 16 March 1988 vol 494 cc1134-6

2.53 p.m.

The Lord Bishop of Worcester asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether anything is to be done to remove the financial disadvantage in terms of tax relief to those who marry as compared with those who choose to live together unmarried.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Transport (Lord Brabazon of Tara)

Yes, my Lords. In his Budget yesterday my right honourable friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced proposals which will remove the tax penalties on marriage.

The Lord Bishop of Worcester

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his Answer. Had I put the Question last Wednesday as I had intended, he would not have been able to give that Answer. However, I am glad that one from these Benches has had the opportunity of congratulating Her Majesty's Government for something that they have done. Many people will be grateful for what has been done in the Budget. Will the noble Lord agree with this? In view of the fact that an important principle is involved—namely, the support and encouragement of marriage as a key part of our society—and also in view of the fact that we have been able to grant tax concessions in other sectors of our land, the concession should have been granted forthwith rather than in 1990?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, I am grateful for the right reverend Prelate's general welcome to the proposals contained in my right honourable friend's Budget yesterday. Had the right reverend Prelate asked the Question last Wednesday, I should not have been able to give the Answer, so his sense of timing in having asked it today is immaculate. Each individual measure will be introduced as soon as is practical. Independent taxation is a major change in the tax affairs of millions of couples and it will need careful preparation. For that reason it was not possible to introduce the measure until 1990.

Lord Barnett

My Lords, does the Minister recognise the fact that those who had some responsibility in this area but who failed to do anything about it will readily acknowledge, as do I, that the Chancellor has sought to grasp this very difficult nettle? On the other hand, will he also accept the fact that the new married couple's allowance goes some way to negate the advantages contained in the proposal in that there is still a substantial difference between men and women—

Noble Lords

Hear, hear!

Lord Barnett

My Lords, I am glad that your Lordships recognise that fact. I should also like to put to the Minister that in the red book the Chancellor states that in the second year of introduction the proposals will cost £1 billion of revenue, and that is based on the existing capital and income distribution which will change when tax avoidance opportunities are recognised. In those circumstances, can we at least have an assurance from the Government that that is only a transitional arrangement, and that it is their intention to move towards real equality between men and women in the tax field?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, I am grateful for the first part of the noble Lord's Question, and I shall pass on his remarks to my right honourable friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer. As regards there being a substantial difference between men and women, I believe that all noble Lords recognise that to be the case. We believe that the tax system should recognise the financial responsibilities of marriage. Without the married couple's allowance, the married man's tax threshold would fall substantially. I cannot at the moment give an answer regarding the figures which the noble Lord quoted.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that there is a feeling among noble Lords on this side of the House (but which is by no means confined to noble Lords who sit on these Benches) that it would have been much fairer, within the ordinary concept of British justice and fairness, to have brought some measure of relief to the 12 million of our population who are living at or below the poverty level, and which includes a large number of married couples?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, that has little to do with the Question before the House. That refers to the discrimination between married and unmarried couples. The package that was introduced in yesterday's Budget removes the discrimination against marriage, and I believe that it should be welcomed from that point of view.

Baroness Young

My Lords, will my noble friend convey to his right honourable friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer the fact that the proposals have been received with a great deal of pleasure by many women's organisations which have compaigned for a very long time? I believe that in this field the proposals will provide a real measure of justice which has been long sought.

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, of course I shall do so; and I am grateful to my noble friend for her remarks. When the package is finally complete in April 1990, there will be no further discrimination against marriage.

Lord Underhill

My Lords, does the Minister not agree that the date on which the new legislation for married women takes effect will be the same date on which vast numbers of married women will pay a community charge for the first time; in other words, the poll tax?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, their husbands will not have to pay rates. Therefore, the situation will be even more equal than at present because the husband and wife will each pay the same, as compared with the present time when the husband probably pays the rates.