§ 2.50 p.m.
§ Baroness Masham of Ilton asked Her Majesty's Government:
§ What steps they propose to take to prevent the improper use of the internationally protected emblem of the Red Cross.
§ Baroness Masham of IltonMy Lords, in asking this Question, perhaps I may declare an interest, in that I am president of the North Yorkshire branch of the British Red Cross Society.
§ Lord BeaverbrookMy Lords, the Geneva Conventions Act 1957 already makes it a criminal offence to use the emblem of the Red Cross without the authority of the Defence Council. The Act also makes it a criminal offence to use without the authority of the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry or the Board of Trade any design or wording so nearly resembling the Red Cross emblem that it could be mistaken for or understood as referring to it.
§ Baroness Masham of IltonMy Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Is he aware that the Red Cross emblem is used primarily in time of war for protecting the sick and wounded and those who look after them—doctors, Red Cross personnel and chaplains? Therefore, if unauthorised use is made of the emblem, that might confuse the issue and even result in deaths.
§ Lord BeaverbrookYes, my Lords. The Red Cross emblem has a very important role to play in time of war. I am sure that your Lordships will all agree with me that we have a high regard for the work of the Red Cross and attach great importance to the protection provided for it by the Geneva Convention.
§ Lord Williams of ElvelMy Lords, can the noble Lord tell the House whether similar protection is afforded to analogous emblems such as the United Nations symbol and the red crescent which is also used in time of war for protection? What are the arrangements in those cases?
§ Lord BeaverbrookMy Lords, I do not have details as to how other international emblems or symbols are protected. However, the existence of the laws which were adopted in this country under the regulations adopting the Geneva Conventions Act 1957 emphasises the importance which we all attach to the Red Cross itself.
§ Lord Boyd-CarpenterMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that a publication called Tribune appears with a red cross on the cover which is indistinguishable from that used by the organisation to which he has referred? Are the Government taking any action under the 1957 Act against that publication for a blatant violation of the law?
§ Lord BeaverbrookMy Lords, I fear that there is a limit to the comment which I can make on that question. The matter is being considered by the Director of Public Prosecutions and until he has made up his mind, that is as far as I can go.
§ Lord Orr-EwingMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that there was some surprise when the Labour Party hijacked the red rose of England after some centuries of use, as we were reminded by the England rugger XV at Twickenham recently? Is it not rather amazing that the Red Cross, which has been recognised under international law and the Geneva Convention since 1864, is suddenly seized upon by the Labour Party to lead its long-running campaign in support of the NHS? Surely an apology from the 699 Opposition Benches would be appropriate, as well as a withdrawal of the use of that distinguished and internationally recognised emblem.
§ Lord Williams of ElvelMy Lords—
§ Lord BeaverbrookMy Lords, perhaps the noble Lord is jumping the gun a bit! Naturally it is important that the emblem of the Red Cross should be protected. That is why the Geneva Convention is so precise on that subject. I am aware that the Labour Party has written to the Red Cross undertaking that in future it will not use any more material containing a symbol which is similar to the one which has been used in that particular campaign.
§ Lord Williams of ElvelMy Lords, will the noble Lord accept my apology for jumping up rather quickly? Is he aware that the Union Jack has been hijacked by the party opposite as its emblem? By what authority was that done? Given the reply by the noble Lord to the effect that the matter of the red cross is being studied by the Director of Public Prosecutions, will he agree that it is wrong for this House to turn itself into a sort of kangaroo court, even with as elegant a chief kangaroo as the noble Lord, Lord Orr-Ewing?
§ Lord BeaverbrookMy Lords, I am not sure that we ought to hijack the national emblem of Australia either. As I said earlier, I can make no comment while the matter is being considered by the DPP.
§ Lord CallaghanMy Lords, am I correct in recalling that there was a time when a medieval crusader carried a shield with a red cross on the front page of the Daily Express
§ Lord BeaverbrookMy Lords, all I can say to that is that I run up the white flag!
§ The Earl of Cork and OrreryMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that the cross carried by the crusaders was the cross of St. George, whereas the red cross to which we are referring is the symbol used on the national flag of Switzerland or perhaps the Canton of Geneva? Is he also aware that a host of grateful wounded, including myself, would be deeply regretful if anything were allowed to be done that might impair in any way the integrity of that almost magical symbol, the red cross?
§ Lord BeaverbrookMy Lords, as I have already said, I am sure that all your Lordships would concur with that.
§ Lord GlenamaraMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the party opposite has not only hijacked the Union Jack but has also hijacked the Royal crown? If he wishes, I can send him a copy of a local newspaper from the old constituency of the noble Viscount, Lord Whitelaw, in which the weekly advertisement of the local Conservative club is surmounted by the Royal crown.
§ Lord BeaverbrookMy Lords, that may or may not be so. However, I assume that the Royal crown is not protected by the Geneva Convention. That is rather more central to the Question which I am answering today.
§ Baroness Masham of IltonMy Lords, perhaps I may ask the noble Lord if he is aware that the red crescent is protected under the Geneva Convention and also that it is the duty of all governments or states to protect those symbols?
§ Lord BeaverbrookMy Lords, I am aware that they are protected. Perhaps I should also say to the noble Baroness that it is open to the Red Cross to take any civil proceedings which it may wish to take.