Chieftain Tank Replacement (Hansard, 3 March 1988)

§ The Minister of State for Defence Procurement (Lord Trefgarne)
My Lords, as I informed noble Lords on 12th January (col. 1226 of Hansard), we have been considering the timescale in which we might need to replace our remaining Chieftain tanks which entered service in the 1960s, and are examining both the improved Challenger and possible overseas options.

§ Lord Gainford
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. Has he any information as to the possible improvement in the new Army tanks in fire power in particular, with reference to gun laying and gun sighting? It seems in recent years that our army tanks have proved to be slightly inferior to those of other nations.

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, we shall certainly be looking for enhanced capabilities within the areas to which my noble friend has referred in whatever tank we decide upon as the Chieftain replacement. Indeed, we are already applying such enhancements to the existing Challenger fleet and I hope that such improvements will be brought into service shortly.

§ Lord Irving of Dartford
My Lords, will the Minister bear in mind that the Army's recommendation was that the replacement should be the Challenger II? Does he agree with the comment made in the Independent a week or two ago that any Minister who decides that we cannot afford a replacement, or that we should go abroad for such a replacement, would in fact be passing a death sentence on the country's tank production capabilities?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, I am afraid I do not know about that. I and my ministerial colleagues are looking for the most cost-effective solution to the requirement to replace the Chieftain tanks. But naturally we shall take into account the implications of such a decision upon the British tank manufacturing industry.

§ Lord Mayhew
My Lords, do the options which the Government are considering include updating the battle tank which Vickers are now making for the Indian Government?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, I do not think it is correct to say that Vickers are supplying a tank for the Indian Government. As I understand the position, India is manufacturing her own tank, although I believe that Vickers do have some part in supplying some of the sub-systems. However, we shall take into account and consider all sensible options that are available to us.

Lord Morris
My Lords, in answer to a Question which was tabled in my name on 12th January, Her Majesty's Government responded by stating that no decisions on the timing for the replacement of the Chieftain tank had yet been made. Can the Minister tell the House whether there has been any progress in that direction?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, as I told my noble friend on the occasion to which he has referred, a decision has not yet been taken. That position remains the same; but I expect that we shall be in a position to make such a decision some time later this year.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, had the Government in 1938 and 1939 decided that it would be more cost-effective to buy tanks in Germany or France, where would that have left us in 1940?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, I am not sure whether that is a relevant question for today because the Germans, the French and ourselves are now all part of the NATO Alliance.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, does the Minister agree that if we were to lose our own domestic capacity to produce tanks of high quality by ordering them from overseas, our own capacity may well disappear never to come hack? Surely that would be to our peril as a nation.

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, I am not sure that what the noble Lord has just said is a correct assessment of the situation. If we decided upon a tank of different origin to the one which the noble Lord referred to, then I dare say it would be manufactured in this country under licence. However, that decision has not yet been taken.