Disabled People: Benefit Levels (Hansard, 1 March 1988)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Security (Lord Skelmersdale)
My Lords, as my honourable friend the Minister for Social Security and for the Disabled 95 announced in another place on 9th February, the outcome of those discussions is that we intend to set up a special trust fund in co-operation with the Disablement Income Group and the Disablement Income Group, Scotland. Help from the fund will be available to those very disabled people who need extensive help to enable them to live independently. The fund will be administered by independent trustees who will make payments according to published criteria which will be set out in the trust deed.

§ Lord Carter
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Perhaps I may ask him whether he is aware of the substantial number of organisations of and for the disabled who have expressed grave reservations about this scheme. Would he also agree that it is important that the scheme is working as quickly and as effectively as possible so that disabled people are not left high and dry on 11th April when the new Act comes into force? I should like to ask the Minister how the figure of £5 million was arrived at. It was mentioned in the press release put out by the DHSS on 9th February. How was the estimate arrived at of the number of disabled people who would be helped by the scheme? Is the scheme intended to last for only one year and is it to be cash limited?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, I am aware that there is a very large number of voluntary organisations representing the disabled, and there has been a distinct increase in the number. This is why my honourable friend had a number of informal and confidential talks with a variety of organisations, as he said in the press notice. It was his assessment that the Disablement Income Group made the most interesting suggestions for setting up the trust fund.
We envisage that the funds trusted will include powers to wind up the trust and to repay any remaining funds to the Exchequer when future circumstances make this appropriate. This is likely to be within the next three to five years.

§ Lord Allen of Abbeydale
My Lords, I should like to ask a little more about the administration of this fund. I find the matter rather puzzling because the Disablement Income Group itself has said that it is not running the scheme, whereas the Minister in another place said that the group would be managing it. I am not quite sure what is the difference. I wonder whether in those circumstances the Minister can explain what happens if someone becomes disabled after next April. To whom does he apply for help under the scheme? Who is to assess his needs? Will the payment be a lump sum or will it be a weekly sum? Most important of all, if the disabled person is turned down to whom does he appeal?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, it is most important that the moneys provided by this trust fund should be extra to the normal social security benefits. Having said that, details of the administration of the fund are still being developed. When the trustees are appointed they will wish to make the final decisions on these issues. However, at this stage we envisage that the day-to-day running of the fund and the assessment of routine claims will not be carried out 96 by the trustees in person but delegated to the administrative staff of the fund acting according to the trustees' instructions. Borderline cases are likely to be referred to the trustees for guidance where necessary.
I appreciate that at this stage I am unable to give the kind of detail for which the noble Lord is asking. Many of these details will be a matter for the trustees. Up to £5 million has been set aside for the fund initially but we shall clearly have to consider funding for future years in the light of the experience of the fund.

§ Baroness Lane-Fox
My Lords, perhaps I may ask the Minister whether the sum he has mentioned is a capital sum.

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, no; most certainly not. The money is intended primarily to provide regular payments to very severely disabled people to enable them to live independently. It also includes provision for administration costs. As I have said in answer to the noble Lord, Lord Allen of Abbeydale, we will clearly have to consider funding for future years in the light of experience.

§ Lord Banks
My Lords, does not this scheme take away from the class of severely disabled people a statutory right to benefit and replace it with cash-limited charity? Why are the Government so reluctant to include this additional benefit for very severely disabled people within the statutory social security system?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, because the new statutory system which will operate from April necessarily has a very broad-brush effect. In answering for this particular group of very disabled people, we are concerned that it would be impossible to fit them into the scheme. Therefore special arrangements have had to be made, and they are being made most urgently.

Baroness Darcy (de Knayth)
My Lords, can the Minister say whether payment will be made to people in receipt of the lower rate of attendance allowance—or indeed in receipt of no attendance allowance—provided that they need to pay for help in order to remain at home?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, details of that nature are still being worked out, but I would again make the point that it is important that the people who unfortunately find themselves in this position should get all the state benefits due to them. The scheme will then decide whether extra payment from the trust fund is appropriate.

§ Lord Basnett
My Lords, in the light of the fact, as the Minister will agree, that support for the disabled should be steady, should be known and should be reasonable, questions abound about the intentions of the Social Security Bill. One has to ask some of those questions. Is the noble Lord aware of the damage being done to any sense of security among the disabled, particularly the severely disabled, by the Bill and its provisions? Will he further elaborate to the House the Government's intentions in regard to 97 the £5 million? Is this intended to last three years? Will more money automatically be available? What can the severely disabled expect from the Government in this respect?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, I thought I had made clear that this is extra government money administered by independent trustees to cope with a particular and devastating range of disabilities. The problem does not yet occur; it will not occur until after April this year. We have adopted a solution that we believe will have the flexibility to cater for the individual needs of a severely disabled person whereas the income support scheme which begins in April targets help to broad groups.

§ Lord Basnett
My Lords, is it a one-off payment, or will it be renewed?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, I thought that I had answered that point. I have said that £5 million has been made available. We shall see whether that is sufficient once we have the scheme up and running.

§ Baroness Turner of Camden
My Lords, will not the scheme be a burden on the voluntary organisation administering it? Should this not be a government responsibility? In view of the concern that has been expressed, will there be provision for Parliament to review how this government money is being spent and to do so at regular intervals?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, I should say that the trust deed will be made public and will be available for inspection by any Member of Parliament or any member of the public. On the noble Baroness's second point. I can only reiterate that this money, which is independently distributed by a trust fund, has nothing to do with any existing charitable body.

§ Lord Seebohm
My Lords, would I be right in thinking that this fund is very similar to the family fund that has been operated for about 15 years by a charitable organisation? It has a very similar amount of money and has been a complete success.

§ Lord Skelmersdale
Yes, my Lords, the noble Lord is absolutely right. In more recent times it would equate with the trust fund which the Government are in the process of setting up for the unfortunate haemophiliacs who have become infected with AIDS.

§ Lord Carter
My Lords, when the announcement about the trust fund was made in another place, the Minister made it clear that this was temporary until the results of the OPCS survey into the needs of disabled people and the Griffiths Report on community care were available. Will the noble Lord give an undertaking on behalf of the Government that it is temporary, that it will be ended and that the needs of disabled people will be looked after within the state scheme once the results of these reports are available?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
Yes, my Lords, most certainly. The point of course arises as to how temporary is temporary. I said originally in answer to the noble Lord that the winding up of the scheme is likely to be 98 within the next three to five years. However, I would not like to be held to that. It depends on how things develop.