§ 2.51 p.m.
§ Lord Campbell of Croy asked Her Majesty's Government:
§ Whether they are satisfied that hazardous wastes are not being shipped to or from the United Kingdom without safe and proper arrangements being made for their disposal.
The Minister of State, Department of the Environment (The Earl of Caithness)My Lords, we are not aware of any exports of waste from the United Kingdom for disposal overseas. The disposal of imported waste is subject to exactly the same controls as waste generated in this country.
Lord Campbell of CroyMy Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that welcome Answer. Can he confirm that a sordid trade has started, aiming to use areas of Africa and South America for irresponsible dumping, and that unless something is done quickly internationally there will be more ships roaming the seas with dangerous cargoes and no valid destination?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, I was concerned, as I am sure were all noble Lords, when reading about the reports of dumping in African states. I can assure my noble friend, however, that there is an EC directive. The department will shortly be laying the directive before Parliament, hopefully before the Summer Recess. Each member state in the European Community has to be convinced that the third world country has the right disposal facilities before any hazardous waste is sent to that country.
§ Lord Cledwyn of PenrhosMy Lords, is the noble Earl aware that there is a good deal of concern in this country about the disposal of nuclear waste? The people of this country are asking for far more information about it than is presently available. Can he say whether there is any truth in the Guardian report today that millions of tonnes of waste from New York are to be deposited in the Warrington area, for example? Can he say something about the procedure? Is it the case that his right honourable friend the Secretary of State for the Environment would in each case call in a planning application for the disposal of waste; that is to say, hold a public inquiry?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, the noble Lord the Leader of the Opposition started off with concern about nuclear waste. He then went on to the potential import of domestic waste from America, in particular to the Cheshire area. I can tell him that we are due to see Cheshire County Council later this week to discuss the matter. As I understand it, the site is already zoned for tipping purposes. Cheshire County Council has a direct interest in the site.
§ Lord Cledwyn of PenrhosMy Lords, why should a vast country such as America wish to send its waste to a small country such as ours?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, I hope that we shall discover a little more about that when we have the meeting.
§ Lord WalstonMy Lords, have the Government power at present, or under the EC directive will they have power, to control the export of waste and to ascertain whether or not it is hazardous before it is allowed to leave this country?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, I am afraid that I missed the first part of the noble Lord's question. However, at the moment the disposal of hazardous waste is controlled by the consignment notes procedure both for imports and for exports. This will be strengthened by the new directive that I have to lay before Parliament shortly.
Lord Campbell of CroyMy Lords, does my noble friend agree that the safe and efficient disposal of such wastes is a useful service to be encouraged, provided that its transport is also safely arranged?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, there is considerable environmental benefit for the transport between countries of hazardous waste. This has been going on throughout Europe for some years. Some of the plants for disposing of hazardous waste are very expensive and not all countries have them. Luckily we in this country are able to benefit the environment by having some of those plants.
§ Baroness WhiteMy Lords, does the Minister agree that there is a case for further investigation and consultation with the hazardous waste inspectorate on this matter? As I understand it, in some areas the financial returns for dumping such waste are very low indeed. At the same time it is using up potential sites for our industries. For example, with the concern about build-up of methane gas and so on, this is becoming a very serious problem. It deserves further investigation.
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, with respect, the noble Baroness may be confusing hazardous and non-hazardous waste. However she may be interested to know that last year we imported about 180,000 tonnes of waste in total. Of that about 53,000 tonnes were special waste, the major part being non-hazardous waste. That is the first time that a very large amount has been imported into this country. Before that it was a fairly negligible amount. However, I can assure her that the total wastes imported were less than a half of 1 per cent. of the total UK waste.
§ Lord KennetMy Lords, when the noble Earl meets the Cheshire County Council and asks it why a large country such as the United States exports hazardous waste to a small country such as ours, will be bear in mind the possibility that it may ask him the same? Will he further bear in mind the possibility that the answer may be that in the United States regulations are to a higher standard than ours?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, on the second point, we have extremely high standards for hazardous and non-hazardous waste.