HL Deb 23 June 1988 vol 498 cc919-21

3.15 p.m.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether the Enterprise and Deregulation Unit has investigated the effect on enterprise generally, and on the profitability of the tourist industry in particular, of the present state of the law on Sunday trading.

Lord Beaverbrook

My Lords, the Enterprise and Deregulation Unit looks for ways to reduce unnecessary burdens on business in all areas of government. The unit has therefore taken a close interest in the implications of Sunday trading laws for enterprise and tourism alongside the Home Office, which has departmental responsibility but has not undertaken any specific study.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that unambiguous reply. Are the Government weighing the economic consequences of the maintenance of our crazy system of Sunday legislation?

Lord Beaverbrook

My Lords, my noble friend is right to say that the anomalous situation as regards Sunday trading clearly has economic consequences. It is well known that the Government continue to favour complete deregulation of Sunday trading. However, they will consider carefully any practical compromise short of complete deregulation if and when a consensus can be achieved.

Lord Graham of Edmonton

My Lords, I am sure that the Minister and his colleagues will not be panicked by any well-heeled pressure group into taking precipitate action and will subscribe to the view that it is better to get it right than to get it soon. Can the Minister provide the House with an update on the views given to it by his noble friend speaking for the Home Office, who said only a month ago that consultations were taking place among interested parties in order to achieve the best possible consensus?

Lord Beaverbrook

My Lords, the noble Lord and my noble friend are as one on the matter. The Government are continuing to consult interested organisations to find a practical solution to the problem. The next step is for interested parties to reach agreement on a compromise if insufficient support remains for complete deregulation.

Lord Lucas of Chilworth

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that it is for the Government to give a lead in the matter? Are there any plans to produce a discussion document upon which decisions can be made and the Government can assess the chances for the consensus of which he has spoken?

Lord Beaverbrook

My Lords, the consultations which are currently taking place may lead to the production of a document. However, my noble friend will remember that the Government took a substantial initiative two years ago. Unfortunately, that initiative did not pass into law.

Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone

The Scribes and Pharisees got at it!

The Lord Bishop of St. Albans

My Lords, perhaps the noble Lord will clarify whether it is the view of the Government that the character of Sundays should be conditioned solely by enterprise profitability, economics and the tourist industry.

Lord Beaverbrook

My Lords, the point of the consultations which are taking place is to establish the strength of feeling on a number of fronts. No doubt the right reverend Prelate will make his views known to the Home Office.

Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone

My Lords, would it not be wise of the right reverend Prelate to cast his eyes north of the Border and study the legal position of Scotland to see whether his condemnation is justified?

Lord Beaverbrook

My Lords, the issue was discussed at great length two years ago. I do not intend to cover that ground again now. Certainly the situation north of the Border seems to work reasonably well.

Baroness Carnegy of Lour

My Lords, do the Government have comparative figures for the situation under the existing laws of Sunday trading in Scotland and that in England and Wales?

Lord Beaverbrook

My Lords, such figures are difficult to work out when no specific guidelines are available. I shall attempt to help my noble friend. However, I do not have any figures with me at the moment.

Lord Williams of Elvel

My Lords, is it not the case that the most enterprising business and that which is most oblivious of regulation is the one which in this sector is most liable to offend against Sunday trading laws? Does not that make the whole situation untenable? Will the noble Lord tell the House when the Government will give a lead on what sort of compromise may be available?

Lord Beaverbrook

My Lords, as I have said, the Government took a substantial initiative two years ago. Many hours were spent debating the matter both in your Lordships' House and in another place. The matter came to a halt. At the moment consultations are taking place. Perhaps they will lead to a document being issued.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter

My Lords, does my noble friend recall that the events of two years ago, to which he properly referred, were not unconnected with the activities of the well-heeled pressure groups about which the noble Lord opposite has warned him?

Lord Beaverbrook

My Lords, I understand that that was the case although I was not myself involved in the discussions.

Lord Mackie of Benshie

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the view that Scotland consists of a large area which on Sunday is riotous, with trading and everything else going on, is entirely mistaken? Is he also aware that there are many communities in Scotland which prefer a peaceful Sunday to making a profit?

Lord Beaverbrook

My Lords, I think that the noble Lord's comments show that there are many different tides of opinion in this matter.

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