HL Deb 26 July 1988 vol 500 cc151-2

2.53 p.m.

Lord Hatch of Lusby asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they are encouraging independent British television companies and film-makers to export to South Africa; and if so whether this does not breach the spirit of limited sanctions against apartheid to which they subscribe.

The Secretary of State for Trade and Industry (Lord Young of Graffham)

My Lords, officials in my department have been in touch with British television companies in order to draw their attention to the potential for the sales of British television programmes to South Africa. Such action is not contrary to our international undertakings on South Africa.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, the Minister makes an assertion at the end of his Answer which is certainly questionable. Is it the case that an official in his department, a Mr. Barry Harding, wrote a letter which included the following statement: Whilst, because of international commitments, the DTI is unable to offer financial support for trade missions to South Africa, or trade fairs there, all other export assistance is available both in London, and through commercial sections overseas". Is that not a breach of the whole spirit of the Government's participation in the Commonwealth and the EC sanctions programme which was intended to deter governments from offering to export any goods to South Africa?

Lord Young of Graffham

My Lords, I fail to see what the noble Lord's question has to do with the Question on the Order Paper. However, as I have told the noble Lord on previous occasions, we stand by the letter of our agreement with our Community and Commonwealth partners that we arrived at in 1985 and 1986. The measures which most affect our civil trading links with South Africa are of course the cessation of Government funding; the trade missions to South Africa or the participation in exhibitions in that country; a ban on the import of certain gold coins; a ban on the import of certain bulk iron and steel and a voluntary ban on certain new investment in South Africa. Other than that, we do not see how the letter from which the noble Lord quoted comes under any one of those headings.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, can the noble Lord tell us whether his officials, when they discussed the matter with the BBC, were informed whether the recent BBC Panorama programme concerning the torture and imprisonment of children in South Africa was exported to South Africa If it was, can he lay down a condition that such programmes are exported there so that the South African government can take the rough with the smooth?

Lord Young of Graffham

My Lords, I am glad to be able to inform your Lordships' House and the noble Lord the Leader of the Opposition that this Government is not the kind of government which tells anyone—the BBC or otherwise—what they should do. I suspect that all Members of your Lordships' House would greatly rue the day if the Government were to do so. It may well be in the noble Lord's mind that the Government of the day should have the power to tell the BBC, or anyone, exactly what they should do.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter

My Lords, apart from what my noble friend has so rightly said as to the Government's attitude, would it not be the height of folly if one wishes to change the climate of thinking in South Africa, as most of us do, to deny that country the import of as many films and television programmes as possible which are made in this country?

Lord Young of Graffham

My Lords, there is no doubt that we have close historical, cultural and family links with South Africa. Further, there exists a sizeable English-speaking population in that country. Surely all Members of your Lordshps' House would agree that the absence of British material from South African screens—which can only be for the good in trying to solve the problems in that troubled land—means in effect that we are missing opportunities to influence and to promote our way of thinking.

The Viscount of Falkland

My Lords, is it not a fact of life in South Africa—as in so many other places—that the wider use of the video-tape recorder has made almost any product accessible to everyone, whether in its legitimate or pirated form? Therefore would it not be a prime objective of the Government to encourage products for the small and the large screen which reflect our democratic traditions and freedom of speech?

Lord Young of Graffham

That is actually the purport of my department's policy.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, is it not the height of hypocrisy for the Government to claim that they are opposed to apartheid when one of their principal departments is deliberately encouraging, and using taxpayers' money, to circumvent the sanctions with which they, on paper, agree?

Is it not also a breach of the agreement which has been made with a number of trade unions, including Equity, that no television programme in which their members take part shall be sold to South Africa?

Lord Young of Graffham

My Lords, the noble Lord had best be his own judge of what constitutes hypocrisy. I must tell the noble Lord that the Government are in no way responsible for the policies of trade unions. The restrictive measures we agreed in common with our Commonwealth and Community partners were intended as a political signal to bring home to the South African Government the urgent need for peaceful dialogue leading to fundamental change. In no way was that signal meant to discourage legitimate civil trade which, I suspect, would not be to the benefit of the whole population.