COSMOS 1900 (Hansard, 26 July 1988)

The Minister of State, Home Office (Earl Ferrers)
My Lords, the Government are monitoring the progress of COSMOS 1900. If a threat to the United Kingdom became apparent the emergency services would be alerted and arrangements to deal with the effects would be set in hand.

§ Baroness Faithfull
My Lords, while thanking my noble friend the Minister for that reply, may I ask what instructions and guidance have been given to the Lord Great Chamberlain, to our much respected Black Rod and to the Doorkeepers who serve us so well—likewise the police—in the event of it landing on Westminster?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod follows a distinguished number of people who have looked after the interests of the Palace of Westminster. I am not aware of any specific instructions given to him as regards this particular instance any more than would have been given to him in the eventuality of a No. 11 bus humping into the Victoria Tower. In the somewhat bizarre circumstances which my noble friend postulates, I am sure that the Gentleman Usher would remember the resourcefulness and courtesies which have always gone with his office and that he would at least have time to say, "Cheerio chaps".

§ Lord Shackleton
My Lords, while the lighthearted intention of the noble Baroness has been well echoed by the Minister and since the Government have now ensured that this country has no capability of putting any satellites into space, the fact remains that a similar satellite—I am sure that the noble Earl has been briefed on this—namely, COSMOS 954, caused several million pounds worth of damage. Although the odds are heavily against the satellite landing on Westminster, the fact remains that there will be quite a problem. Will the Government therefore consider pressing and supporting those who seek some limitation as regards putting into space nuclear capabilities which present a particular threat when they come down to earth?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Shackleton, is quite right. When these objects go up into space and go wrong they can cause immense 146 trouble. This is a matter with which the Government are always concerned. According to the information I have, there is about one chance in 2,000 of this particular instrument collapsing on to the United Kingdom.

§ Lord Renton
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that if, mercifully, this object does not land on Westminster, it might nevertheless land in an important farming area? Is he aware that a report of the Agriculture Select Committee of another place published today contains advice both critical and constructive as regards our handling of the Chernobyl incident and its effect on farming? Can the Minister confirm that if there should be this kind of mishap in a farming area the advice of the Select Committee will be followed?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, if that eventuality were to come about, the authorities would be responsible for dealing with it. They would no doubt take into account what the Select Committee says. However, overall responsibility would be exercised from a central control point with ministerial and official representation from all the government departments concerned. Local authorities would follow the Home Office emergency planning and guidance to local authorities in which Annex C to Section 25 deals specifically with incidents of this kind.

§ Lord Boston of Faversham
My Lords, on reflection, does the noble Earl feel that not only would it be unfortunate if a Number 11 bus collided with the Victoria Tower, but it would also be very careless indeed because it should be going down Victoria Street?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Boston of Faversham, is particularly accurate. In that case, the bus would not be going in the right direction. Oddly enough, this missile or satellite is also not going in the right direction and that is why it is a hazard.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, is this not a situation where a simple form of the star wars technology might be useful in disposing of this dangerous object in a peace-time incident?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, that might be one method of disposing of it; but whether it is the most appropriate or suitable is a matter of opinion and for considerable discussion. I do not believe that everyone would welcome the idea of objects being shot out of space.

§ Baroness Ewart-Biggs
My Lords, can the Minister say whether there has been confirmation of the Tass news agency report of May this year that the satellite poses no danger? If not, what confirmation can the Minister give that the Government have sought from the USSR Government assurances that the nuclear reactor on COSMOS 1900 will be expelled into space?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, we have had statements not only from Tass but also from the Russian Ambassador who wrote about this matter. There is the possibility of danger. As I understand it, this satellite may burn up as it comes into the earth's atmosphere. In that case, it may leave a long trail. On the other hand, it may come down in one lump in which case the effects will be somewhat different. In either eventuality the emergency services will take control of the situation, and it will be dealt with.

§ Lord Tordoff
My Lords, in the event of it coming down in either form, have the Soviet Government given any indication of what compensation they will pay to people who are stricken by this object?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, international law allows a country in which a satellite falls to be reimbursed for any damage and other costs which arise from the incident. In such an eventuality an announcement would be made after the event about claims for compensation for injury or death. It is another thing of course to get the compensation.

§ Lord Shackleton
My Lords, does the noble Earl agree that it is perhaps desirable that the public should be informed of the risk, if any? Is he aware that one fragment from COSMOS 954 was nine inches long and gave off 40 times the acceptable level of radiation? Although the risk is small, nonetheless it would be as well on a matter of this kind if the Government were to issue a flat straight statement which showed the extent to which there could be a risk, although I would agree that the odds are heavily against it landing in an inhabited part of the world.

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, I understand that not until about two weeks before the entry of the object will it be clear exactly where it is likely to land. I can assure the noble Lord, Lord Shackleton, that if it were decided that there was a possible threat, no matter how small, a warning would be given to relevant agencies, including the police, so that they could activate their contingency plans; and the public would be advised at the same time if the threat was significant.

§ Lord Harmar-Nicholls
My Lords, is this not the kind of Question to which it is impossible to give a coherent answer—apart from the possibility of creating a lot of fright? I should have thought that the practical thing to do is to get in touch with Lloyds of London to see what the terms are for covering the risk.

Earl Ferrers
My Lords I am grateful to my noble friend for his generous comment upon my answers. I agree that the situation is somewhat hypothetical, but I have tried to describe only what might happen should the hypothesis become a fact.

§ Lord Whaddon
My Lords, would not the Hotol space plane be particularly useful in this situation in its ability to intercept satellites in distress? Will the Government show a little more enthusiasm in supporting the project?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, I do not think that Hotol in its present form would be much of an assistance in dealing with the problem under discussion. The noble Lord asks a far wider question which I do not propose to answer.