HL Deb 22 July 1988 vol 499 cc1586-8

11.17 a.m.

Lord Kennet asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they objected to a draft statement in the Council of Ministers of the European Community about the United States' shooting down of an Iranian airliner when all other member states, including those with naval forces in the Gulf, agreed to it.

The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Glenarthur)

My Lords, it is not customary practice to comment on confidential discussions between the Twelve in political co-operation.

Lord Kennet

Very well, my Lords, let us try another tack. Can the Government confirm that the recent unanimous statement of the United Nations Security Council did not make any claim that the shooting down of the Iranian airliner had been an act of self-defence but stated, or implied, that it was, on the contrary, a tragic mistake? Can the Government therefore confirm that the claim by the President of the United States and our Prime Minister that it was an act of self-defence has now been decently buried?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, I think the noble Lord will be aware that there are two investigations in hand at the moment; one by the United States Navy and one by ICAO. Therefore, I am unable to comment further on the details because we must await the outcome of those investigations. We welcome the unanimous adoption of Security Council Resolution 616. It is a significant achievement that the Security Council was able to agree on the text which was also broadly acceptable to Iran.

Lord Mellish

This is a most extraordinary situation. While we all agree that the shooting down. of the Iranian aircraft was tragic, and no one can deny that, it is followed almost immediately by an offer by Iran to sue for peace. Does the Minister learn any lessons from that?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, like the noble Lord I too deeply regret the loss of life. Many of us share his view; we all have deep sympathy for the bereaved. It is certainly a tragedy for all concerned. It underlines the urgent need for an early end to the Iran-Iraq conflict and to attacks on shipping. The signs of acceptance of Security Council Resolution 598 by Iran are very encouraging but much remains to be done. We have to urge both sides to negotiate rapid and detailed implementation plans.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter

My Lords, if it is not out of order, I revert to the Question on the Order Paper. I ask my noble friend whether our European friends might not have appreciated that the British Government have more practical experience of the problems facing the commanding officer of a ship at war already in action with gunboats than any of them? Is it not correct that the view of the British Government, based upon that experience, is entitled to great respect?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend. We certainly have that experience. We are also keen to ensure, as my noble friend would expect, that the principle of the right to navigation in the Gulf is upheld and all that goes with it.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, we strongly welcome the support which Her Majesty's Government gave yesterday to the United Nations resolution and to the five points contained in it. Can the noble Lord tell the House that the Government are satisfied that British naval forces in the Gulf are aware of the detailed movements of passenger aircraft in the area so that the possibility of any future tragic error may be avoided?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, I can assure the noble Lord that lessons are being studied as regards the safety of civil aircraft in the Gulf and that all possible steps will be taken to prevent this kind of thing happening again.

Lord Kennet

My Lords, will the noble Lord clearly dissociate the Government from the point of view expressed from the Labour Benches that a good way to get a country to do what one wants is to shoot down a civil airliner flying over the territorial waters of the country in what is not a war zone?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, it is up to the noble Lord to place whatever interpretation he finds it necessary to place. I confess that I did not find it necessary to place that interpretation on any of the remarks.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, I am very much obliged. I do not know whether it is the noble Lord's hearing or a deliberate attempt to misrepresent me. There is not a tittle of truth in what he said.

Lord Kennet

My Lords, I am extremely sorry that I should have been misunderstood. I was referring to the intervention by the noble Lord, Lord Mellish. If I have missed the fact that he left the Labour Party some time ago then I apologise to him and even more so to the Labour Party.

Lord Mellish

My Lords, I wish to get it straight. I am not on the Labour Benches.

The Lord Privy Seal (Lord Belstead)

My Lords, questions are addressed to Her Majesty's Government. The noble Lord, Lord Kennet, has set an extremely bad example in sending people off down this particular road.

Lord Kennet

My Lords, I ask the House to take note of the fact that I have apologised.

Lord Belstead

My Lords, the apology has been accepted and now is the moment to move on to the next business.