Gatwick Airport: Night Landings (Hansard, 21 July 1988)

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, the night noise restrictions at Gatwick which my right honourable friend announced in February permit the airport manager to exempt flights from the restrictions if they are delayed by widespread and prolonged disruption of air traffic. This has already helped to relieve the effects of major foreign air traffic control disputes.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that helpful reply, perhaps I may ask him whether it means that in all cases in which an aircraft is delayed and as a result arrives on the approach after the time of closure it will be allowed to land at Gatwick and not be diverted to other airports, with consequent misery to passengers and threat to safety from an overtired crew.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, each case is dealt with on its merits. The general rule is that if these delays are caused by widespread and prolonged disruption of air traffic, exemptions can be given.

§ Lord Orr-Ewing
My Lords, the Question deals with landings. Do the regulations allow for the fact that there is much less disturbance by way of noise when landing as compared to taking off'? Surely one should be able to extend the hours of landing quite considerably past the regular permitted time.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, this policy of night landing or night movement restrictions at both Gatwick and Heathrow, particularly Gatwick as regards the present situation, was reviewed by my right honourable friend. We published our plan for the next five years which allows for an increase in the number of night movements at the expense of phasing out some of the older aircraft.
We are committed to an improvement in the night noise climate at both those airports. To exempt completely the quietest aircraft from landing would give rise to an adverse effect on the night noise climate, so it is not in the airlines' long-term interest to allow those extra movements.

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
My Lords, is it not the case that the restrictions on most capital cities are much more severe than those on London airports? Is it not the case that it may be desirable to consider the possibility of planning air flights, particularly international and charter tours, so that aircraft arrive at airports north of London, many of which are crying out for custom?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, if Heathrow and Gatwick are to maintain their positions as leading airports in Western Europe and indeed in the world they must have the flexibility to allow night flights to be operated from them. We have to try to mitigate the noise effects of those night flights and we have to maintain a balance between the interests of the residents and those of the travellers.

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, is this not one of the points on which the Secretary of State has asked the Civil Aviation Authority to report to him by November? Will that not include the question of night flights, both landing and take-off? Will that not also involve the question of the use of quieter aircraft if there is to be an extension of night landings or take-offs? The other important question is that everyone is now agreed that the problem is lack of air space. Should there not be a curtailment of nonpublic transport movements, particularly those of the military?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, as to the noble Lord's first question about my right honourable friend's request to the CAA to produce new proposals by November on easing air traffic control restrictions and by next July on airport capacity both in the South-East and in the country as a whole, the Secretary of State in his letter asked the CAA to take into account environmental considerations. We now have our policy for night flights set out for the next five years and I should think it unlikely that we shall be advised by the CAA to change that.
The use of military air space is kept under review. The National Air Traffic Services, which is responsible for air traffic control in this country and is a joint body between the CAA and the Ministry of Defence, keeps under review the need for military air space. From the information I have, the possible advantages in reduction of military air space are not very great.

§ Lord Jay
My Lords, would not many of these troubles have been avoided if the development of Stansted Airport had not been held up for 20 years as a result of a lot of special pleadings?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, quite possibly. However we now have a plan for Stansted to be developed to deal with 8 million passengers by 1991. I am not a historian as to what happened over the past 20 years, as is the noble Lord, Lord Jay. At the moment I am more concerned about what will happen next weekend and the weekend after.

§ Lord Ferrier
My Lords, does my noble friend appreciate the extent to which the absence of proper railway services impairs the use of Prestwick Airport as a safety valve? When will they build a railway station which is part of the airport?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I believe that as regards the current situation which we arc facing of delays to aeroplanes to Gatwick, about which I am being asked in the Question, Prestwick could have nothing to offer to relieve those delays.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, my noble friend twice referred to permission to land after hours being granted where there had been widespread and prolonged delays. Is my noble friend aware that if you are a passenger or the crew of an aircraft which is behind time, it does not make any difference whether that is part of widespread and prolonged delays? It is those particular people who suffer. Will 1484 he make it clear that his Answer does not exclude them?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, they are bound to be suffering because of something which has gone wrong with the system as a result of those delays over a period of time. Therefore, I hope that they would be accommodated within the dispensations which are able to be given.

§ Lord Gisborough
My Lords, does not my noble friend believe that many people would much prefer to travel by night to a provincial airport where they would be very welcome rather than spend three or four days lying on a sofa at Gatwick Airport? Perhaps he would therefore encourage the use of provincial airports.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, we have done a great deal to encourage the use of provincial airports over the past few years, as anyone who cares to look at the figures will see. The main problem in the past few weeks has been one of air space over Europe and difficulties with the destinations to which people are travelling. If my noble friend looks at the figures for the delays I am afraid that he will find that provincial airports have been as badly affected as the London airports.

§ Lord Mackie of Benshie
My Lords, has the Minister taken on board the point put by his noble friend Lord Orr-Ewing; namely, that there is a tremendous difference in nuisance value between landing at under power and taking off at full power? That makes relevant the point put to him by the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, that is true but I tried to answer that. We are interested in the overall amount of noise created. While landings obviously make far less noise than take-offs, if one is looking at the overall noise created—and we are committed to reducing that amount of noise over the years—one has to take both into account.

§ Lord Borthwick
My Lords, while there are difficulties about aircraft and landings, we are trying to do as little as we can with Turnhouse. That used to be a very good aerodrome and is one of the best in the whole of Britain for landing. It is more or less fog-free and during the war it was a very valuable place. That has now been closed down. Why is that?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, if my noble friend is referring to Edinburgh Airport, which is a long way—

§ Lord Borthwick
My Lords, not Edinburgh Airport.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, in that case I am not certain that it is very relevant to the Question on the Order Paper.