Local Authority Housing (Hansard, 20 July 1988)

The Minister of State, Department of the Environment (The Earl of Caithness)
My Lords, an average of 109,000 dwellings a year were completed for local authorities in Great Britain in 1974 to 1979 and 26,000 a year in 1983 to 1987.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for those figures, but do they not indicate that government policy is very largely responsible for the present housing crisis in the country? Is it not a fact, taking the global figures since the Government took office, that if we had been building houses for the public sector at the same rate as in 1979 we should have had more than half a million houses extra in the public sector today? Does it not seem madness that the Government continue to withhold from local authorities the money that they have raised from the sale of capital assets which, had it been made available in full, could have made a tremendous impact and dent in these appalling figures?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, the figures that were requested in the noble Lord's Question were averages. As he knows, and as I am sure your Lordships know, after the high of 1975, house building went down in 1976 and again in 1977, 1978 and 1979.

§ Lord Orr-Ewing
My Lords, compared with those figures that my noble friend has given the House, can he say how many private sector houses were built in 1304 the comparable periods and has he formed any forecast of how much rented accommodation will come on to the market in years to come as a result of the new Housing Bill?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I cannot give a figure today for the increase in the rented market as a result of the Housing Bill because that will be for the market to decide. However, I know that my noble friend will wish to support me in keeping alive the private sector rented market. The starts and completions in the private sector in 1987 were the highest since 1973—over 190,000 starts and 170,000 completions.

§ Lord Graham of Edmonton
My Lords, will the Minister confirm that although he indicated that there had been a decline in the number of public sector houses built between 1974 and 1979, at the end of that period even the lowest figure for houses built under Labour was higher than that for any year under this Government? Will the Minister take this opportunity to confirm that local authority house building still has a prime part to play in providing rented accommodation? Will he tell the House the measures that the Government are taking to encourage local authorities to build houses for rent?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Graham, is wrong. House completions in 1980 were more than those in 1979.

§ Lord Graham of Edmonton
My Lords, the noble Earl has not answered the question.

§ Lord Hylton
My Lords, will the Minister confirm that the Housing Executive in Northern Ireland is allowed to spend, and spends, the whole of the proceeds that it receives from the sale of council houses in the year in which it is received? Why could not the same tolerance be allowed to regions in England outside London and the South-East?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, the reason that there is a restriction on the amount that local authorities can spend has been covered many times in your Lordships' House. As it is part of public expenditure it needs to be taken into account by the Chancellor.

§ Lord Jenkin of Roding
My Lords, did not the two periods selected by the noble Lord, Lord Dean of Beswick, also demonstrate the very marked shift from the building of new houses to the refurbishment of some of the disastrous housing estates that had been built in earlier years by governments of all parties'? Does not this programme of refurbishment and the estates improvement on which the present Government were embarking at that point represent a major improvement in the quality of rented housing by local authorities?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, my noble friend is absolutely right. Since April 1979, in England over 1.1 million renovation and improvement grants have been paid to private owners and tenants. In addition, 1305 125,000 housing association dwellings have been converted. The average annual rate for the number of improvement grants made to the private sector and housing associations is up 44 per cent. from 98,000 to 141,000 compared with the Labour administration between 1974 and 1979.

§ Lord Stallard
My Lords, in reply to a previous question the noble Earl mentioned the private rented sector. Does he recall that the government survey on privately rented houses in multiple occupation in 1987 revealed that there are 2.5 million people living in rented accommodation in the private sector in houses in multiple occupation? The report described the conditions under which they lived as being an indictment of national and local government policy over many years. In view of the fact that the present Housing Bill does nothing to redress that situation, can he tell us what plans the Government have to deal with the serious situation that the report threw up?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I believe that is a little wide of the Question on the Order Paper, but I know that much of the ground the noble Lord has mentioned will be covered in our housing debates.

§ Lord Plummer of St. Marylebone
My Lords, can my noble friend say how many unoccupied and unused dwellings there are in local government hands?

The Earl of Caithness
Yes, my Lords, I believe I can. There are 110,000 empty dwellings.

§ Lord Hankey
My Lords, if the Government gave permission to the local authorities to spend the reserves that they set aside for housing, would that not tend to reduce the price of housing, which is pushing up inflation? Would it not also ease the pressure on people trying to find housing so that they can take up the employment that is available?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, there is the great debate that although we want more housing and there is a demand for more housing, as the noble Lord will know, there is also a very strong demand to keep the green belt intact; and perhaps that is just as relevant to house prices.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, is the Minister aware that I am once again surprised at the intervention of the noble Lord, Lord Jenkins, whom I and many other people consider was the architect of the appalling housing situation that we find ourselves in today by the measures that he helped to introduce against local authorities? Having in mind that it is established that we would have had half a million extra houses in the public sector to let, is it not a fact that the shortage and unavailability of those houses must have had a tremendous effect on house prices and the upward explosion of homeless people in the areas of greatest need? Will the Minister comment on what he thinks might have happened to house prices had those half a million houses been available to let?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, it would be wrong for me to hypothecate on what housing prices might have done had there been more or less houses around.

§ Lord St. John of Fawsley
My Lords, will my noble friend perhaps tell us why the noble Lord, Lord Dean, is attacking the noble Lord, Lord Jenkins, since he is no longer a member of the Labour Party?

Noble Lords
Wrong man!

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, the noble Lord knows to whom I am referring. I am of course referring to the former Secretary of State, the noble Lord, Lord Jenkin of Roding.

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I really cannot answer my noble friend. The Opposition always seems to criticise us.