HL Deb 19 July 1988 vol 499 cc1194-7

2.40 p.m.

Lord Jenkins of Putney asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they will reject the proposal of the London Residuary Body to sell a 150-year lease of the Lyceum Theatre to the highest bidders (who propose a cabaret use) and will direct that one of the offers by reputable theatre managements proposing a theatrical use be accepted.

Lord Hesketh

My Lords, there is no proposal for Her Majesty's Government to reject.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that he is thoroughly mistaken? The London Residuary Body has put this 150-year lease for the Lyceum on sale. It has been taken up on the basis that the theatre will become a cabaret. As the noble Lord may now be more aware of the situation than when he started, will he reconsider the position?

Lord Hesketh

My Lords, the London Residuary Body has a statutory duty to dispose of surplus GLC property for the best consideration that can reasonably be obtained for the benefit of London ratepayers. In this circumstance it does not require the approval of the Government.

The Earl of Bessborough

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the Theatres Trust, the Arts Council and the British Theatre Association—of which I am president and which represents everyone concerned with drama, whether professional, amateur or educational—protested at this decision? Although I must admit, being half French, that I am not opposed to the Paris Lido—as referred to in the letter by the noble Lord, Lord Birkett, yesterday—nor indeed the Folies Bergéres, will my noble friend agree that we already have cabarets and revue bars in London and that it is inappropriate to let the historic Lyceum Theatre for this purpose?

Lord Hesketh

My Lords, I am unaware at the moment of the presence of an equivalent of either the Paris Lido or the Folies Bergére in our capital city. However, it is important to remember that, with one very small exception in 1985, the Lyceum has been a ballroom since 1945.

Lord St. John of Fawsley

My Lords, will my noble friend agree that the prime responsibility for what one can only call an act of cultural vandalism rests not upon the Government but upon Ken Livingstone's GLC and the succeeding residuary body? Would it not be a splendid thing if the Government, like a white knight, came to the rescue—

Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone

Ah!

Lord St. John of Fawsley

—and saved the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hailsham, and saved one of our oldest theatrical institutions? Will my noble friend use his considerable charm and powers of persuasion to ask the Secretary of State to intervene and act in this matter?

Lord Hesketh

My Lords, I am very grateful for the remarks of my noble friend Lord St. John, particularly in reminding your Lordships' House that it was the late GLC which gave the last extension of a dance hall licence to the Lyceum Theatre. However, I am afraid that with regard to his major point I can only refer him to my original Answer.

Baroness Seear

My Lords, in considering his original Answer will the noble Lord not agree that the interests of the ratepayers, which I believe was the phrase he used, does not necessarily exclusively mean the immediate financial interests? They may have an interest also which they have not been asked to express about what becomes of historic buildings of this kind.

Lord Hesketh

My Lords, the building's historical basis will be protected by planning regulations that already exist and will be a matter for Westminster City Council.

Baroness Birk

My Lords, is it not the case that during the passage of the legislation we were assured by the Government that London's culture would not suffer from the abolition of the GLC and that the then Minister for the Environment in this House, the noble Lord, Lord Elton, said that when the Lyceum passed to the London Residuary Body he expected that body to take into account concerns about the future use of the theatre when considering its ownership? Perhaps the noble Lord will say what is happening in the light of those promises that were made.

Lord Hesketh

My Lords, in answer to the noble Baroness I must draw her attention to the point that I made to my noble friend Lord Bessborough, which is that since 1945 the establishment has been a dance hall. I believe that the proposal is that it is to become a theatrical cabaret. Whether that is an improvement I do not know.

The Earl of Halsbury

My Lords, remembering that the original Lyceum was Aristotle's home and that we have shut down no fewer than seven schools of philosophy during the past two years, could the Lyceum Theatre not be considered as a hostel for displaced philosophers?

Lord Hesketh

My Lords, I shall certainly draw the noble Earl's remarks to the attention of my right honourable friend the Secretary of State.

Lord Morris

My Lords, since when has cabaret not been considered theatre?

Lord Hesketh

My Lords, I believe that all these matters to an extent at the end of the day are matters of personal taste and judgment.

Lord Taylor of Blackburn

My Lords, is the Minister aware how long is the lease? May I say—

Noble Lords

Question!

Lord Taylor of Blackburn

My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether he has been in the Lyceum since it has been on the market? Those of us who have been there found that it was nothing but a dump.

Lord Hesketh

My Lords, I went there only once to a rather good party.

Lord Donaldson of Kingsbridge

My Lords, it is rather important that this matter should be treated seriously. The Lyceum is one of the great theatres of this country, and anyone who does not think so ought to think so. It should not be allowed to be turned over with the complete change of use that is proposed.

Lord Hesketh

My Lords, as I pointed out earlier, with regard to the appearance of the Lyceum, it will be protected by the planning regulations as they exist. That will be administered by Westminster City Council. I believe it is possible that if a substantial amount of money is vested in the Lyceum at the end of the day the whole building and its structure may benefit.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, will the Minister inform his noble friend that Sir Henry Irving was not a cabaret artist? If he looks into the history of this theatre he will see that it deserves careful attention. Will he not therefore consider this matter again? He has received very little informed support (has he not?) from many parts of the House. I suggest to him that as the Minister has powers to intervene and as the residuary body is not obliged to count its benefits solely in terms of pounds, shillings and pence, in all the circumstances it would be desirable to consider the matter once again.

Lord Hesketh

My Lords, I can only repeat that, first, the building will be protected, and, secondly, I believe it is important to remember that it has not been in use as a theatre, apart from a very short period of time, since the end of the Second World War.

Lord Mackie of Benshie

My Lords, in spite of the use to which the building has been put is the Minister aware that it would be a forward looking act for the Government to change the use? Preserving the building is as nothing compared to preserving it as a theatre. It is what goes on in a building that is important and not the preservation of the fabric.

Lord Hesketh

My Lords, the Government are not in a position to interfere with the LRB, which has a statutory remit to dispose of surplus former GLC property for the best price obtainable. I have to answer the noble Lord's question by reminding him of what the building has been used for for the past 45 years.