COMMONS AMENDMENT (Hansard, 19 July 1988)

§ The Lord Chancellor
My Lords, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 4. This also is a drafting amendment designed to avoid the risk of any undue weight being placed on the word "due"where none is intended.

§ Lord Elwyn-Jones
My Lords, it is perhaps as well that this amendment should be put in its context. It relates to Clause 15(6), which provides: Except as provided by section 16 or by regulations"— which we shall be coming to later— a legally assisted person shall not be required to make any payment in respect of representation under this Part and it shall be for the Board to pay his solicitor for acting for him and to pay any fees due to counsel for so acting". 1205 It is suggested by the noble and learned Lord that the use of the words "due to" gives undue weight in the circumstances. That naturally makes members of the legal profession who may be present a little nervous, hearing in mind the refusal of the noble and learned Lord to agree to the general definition of what should be paid. I believe the relevant phrase is "The principle of reasonable remuneration". Is this intended to reinforce the Government's position that they should not be required to pay reasonable remuneration—at any rate, with those words included in the Bill—or is there something less, wholly 100 per innocent, than at first strikes the eye?

§ The Lord Chancellor
My Lords, I can assure your Lordships, including any members of the legal profession who are present, that I am not in any way harping back to the arguments about imprecise criteria that existed in the past for legal aid remuneration. This subsection to which the noble and learned Lord, Lord Elwyn-Jones, referred provides that it shall be for the board to pay a client's solicitor for acting for him and to pay any fees due to counsel for so acting.
As your Lordships will see, the word "due" is used only in relation to counsel. It would perhaps be a little optimistic to believe that fees would be paid that are not due. We do not have the word included for solicitors and there is therefore a lack of symmetry. As your Lordships know, I am keen on having symmetry in this Bill and it therefore seems right to take out the word. There is nothing more sinister than that. Therefore, I hope your Lordshps will agree with the Commons on this amendment.