HL Deb 13 July 1988 vol 499 cc823-4

2.45 p.m.

Baroness Elliot of Harwood asked Her Majesty's Government:

How many farmers have so far applied to join the environmentally sensitive areas scheme and how many hectares of land are involved.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Baroness Trumpington)

My Lords, in the United Kingdom, there have been over 3.100 applications to join the environmentally sensitive areas scheme, involving some 180,000 hectares.

Baroness Elliot of Harwood

My Lords, I congratulate the Minister on that Answer and on the success of the scheme. The first priority for agricultural land must surely be its use for farming. Can she assure me that the interests of farmers will be watched over in the implementation of the environmentally sensitive areas scheme?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, the Government have designated a wide range of areas in what is largely an experimental scheme. They include some novel features such as uncropped wildlife strips in the Breckland. We should now pause and assess the effect of ESAs before we extend them. It will be some years before it is possible to measure the environmental effects of designation. We must work at nature's pace. Farmers entering the ESA scheme will continue farming.

Lord John-Mackie

My Lords, the noble Baroness has given very interesting and encouraging figures. Is she able to tell us what percentage of the total area of ESAs those figures represent? If, in a particular area, 80 per cent. of the land is taken up, what will the Government do to ensure that uptake for the area is 100 per cent.?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, uptake varies in ESAs. However, taking England as a whole, the uptake has been very satisfactory. We now have agreements and applications covering more than 85 per cent. of the land which we consider suitable for participation in the scheme. The scheme is voluntary. We would not seek to persuade people who, for one reason or another, do not wish to join it.

Lord Carter

My Lords, perhaps I may congratulate the Government on the success of the ESAs so far. I am sure that the Minister will be the first to agree that we have a long way to go. Will she agree, in the light of our problem with surplus agricultural production, that there is much to be said for directing agricultural policy towards less intensive farming? Will she comment on the imaginative proposal put forward by the chairman of the Countryside Commission to the effect that eventually the whole of the United Kingdom should be an ESA?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, I do not think that I agree with that proposal. It is a matter of horses for courses. However, it is true that several ESAs ask farmers to limit numbers of stock on land or to revert from arable land to grass. That would have some effect in reducing surpluses. I emphasise that ESAs are concerned with the continuance and encouragement of more traditional farming methods which are environmentally sensitive.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, in her very full reply the Minister referred specifically to England. As I understand it, large areas of Wales come under the ESA scheme. Can she say what the response has been there and what the position is in Scotland'?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, I rather anticipated that the noble Lord might ask that question. I hope that he will help me with the names. The Cambrian Mountains ESA came into force on 1st March 1987 and was extended on 1st January 1988. At the same time, the Lleyn Peninsula ESA came into operation. There are two ways in which the Cambrian Mountains ESA differs from English ESAs. First, payments are made on broadleaved woodlands which are a particular feature of that ESA. Secondly, farmers wishing to join that ESA are not required to complete an application form as they are in England but are visited by an ESA project officer who discusses with them features which could be included in a management agreement. It is too early to assess uptake in the Lleyn Peninsula ESA.

Lord Stoddart of Swindon

My Lords, will the Minister reconsider her reply to my noble friend Lord Carter? He asked whether it was possible to go in for less intensive farming. Will she agree that if we did, the likelihood is that we would have more working people living in the countryside and more wholesome food? Can she tell the House to what extent European countries have taken up the ESA scheme?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, as regards the first part of the noble Lord's supplementary question, I do not believe that our farmers will agree that they are not producing entirely wholesome food. As regards the second part of the question, only Germany has followed our good example.