HL Deb 25 January 1988 vol 492 cc405-6
Lord Harris of Greenwich

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they propose to recognise the Prison Governors' Association.

The Minister of State, Home Office (Earl Ferrers)

We are considering the new association's request for recognition and will take a decision as soon as possible.

Lord Harris of Greenwich

My Lords, in thanking the noble Earl for that reply, may I ask whether he is aware that over 60 per cent. of the grades concerned are now members of the Prison Governors' Association? In the context of that situation, can I ask him to ensure that the decision is made as speedily as possible?

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, I am aware of the number of people who have said that they wish to join this association, but the noble Lord will be aware that when there is a request for recognition one first has to go through certain channels of communication. That is the process we are now going through. We will make a decision as soon as possible.

Lord Mishcon

My Lords, is one of the matters which will appeal to the noble Earl as worthy of consideration the views of other unions to which exactly the same grades now belong?

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, all matters raised by the noble Lord, Lord Mishcon, are of interest and concern. Of course, he is correct that those matters are being considered.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter

My Lords, in considering this application, will my noble friend and his right honourable friend have in mind that this organisation consists of highly responsible people whose views could be of great assistance to Her Majesty's Government?

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, that is perfectly true. It is one of the considerations which will be taken into account. However, my noble friend will realise that the Government have to satisfy themselves on such matters as financial viability, independence and other industrial relations issues.

Lord Harris of Greenwich

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Earl for the general character of his remarks. However, is he aware that although it is obviously right to consult the other unions concerned it would be quite wrong to allow them a right of veto given the fact—and I repeat this—that over 60 per cent. of the grades concerned are now members of the Prison Governors' Association?

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, there is no question of a right of veto; but it is necessary to consult them. I would tell the noble Lord, Lord Harris of Greenwich, that the Prison Officers' Association's comments were received only on 21st January and those of the National Union of Civil and Public Servants on the Home Office trade union side have not yet been received.

Lord Mellish

My Lords, while respecting the right of these people to have their own organisation, and the job that they do, as the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter, said, may I ask a simple question? Are those people members of any organisation now and, if so, why are they leaving it?

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, they decided to leave the organisation of which they were members, which used to be the governors' branch of the Society of Civil and Public Servants. That was then transformed into another organisation which they left because they felt their views were not being properly represented.

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