§ 2.39 p.m.
§ Lord Peyton of YeovilMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government when they expect to announce their plans for the future of the electricity supply industry and whether they intend to publish a Green Paper.
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, Her Majesty's Government will announce their plans for privatisation of the electricity supply industry in due course. There are no plans to publish a Green Paper on the subject.
§ Lord Peyton of YeovilMy Lords, I wish I could thank my noble friend for that Answer. I regret the absence of a Green Paper; one would seem appropriate in the circumstances. Does the Minister agree that the proposals, when they come, will be measured against their likely effect upon security of supply, safety and prices? Does he not agree that in this instance competition may be even more difficult to attain than in the case of telephones and gas?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, as I am well aware of the view of my noble friend on this subject, I did not expect him to welcome my reply with wild enthusiasm. However, I should tell him that Green Papers have not been issued in connection with previous privatisations. In reply to his last question, I can assure him that all these matters are being considered.
§ Lord Mason of BarnsleyMy Lords, will the noble Viscount ensure that no price increases take place before the privatisation of the electricity industry?
§ Viscount DavidsonNo, my Lords. A Statement was made in another place and I repeated it here—I think it was in October—about the increase in electricity prices which would take place in April and which has nothing to do with privatisation.
Lord Campbell of CroyMy Lords, can my noble friend say whether, when the announcement is made, the announcement for Scotland will be made at the same time? The Central Electricity Generating Board and the distribution boards do not operate there.
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I am afraid I cannot tell the noble Lord that.
§ Lord Dean of BeswickMy Lords, bearing in mind the number of views and opinions expressed by various components of the community who will be affected in one way or another by these proposals, does the Minister not think they would be better received if a Green Paper were issued to give people a chance to express their views in a constructive manner? A decision taken on a purely politically philosophical basis may be the wrong way of doing it and may result in very adverse effects on the supply to the community as a whole.
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I do not agree with that at all. I can only report that no Green Papers have been issued in connection with previous privatisations. However, I understand that a White Paper will be issued in due course.
§ Lord Stoddart of SwindonMy Lords, is the noble Viscount aware that the integrated electricity supply industry in this country is the envy of the world? Since it was formed in 1949 it has ensured that virtually everyone in this country enjoys a mains electricity supply. What is more, the electricity supply industry has given the country security of supply at—when the Government do not interfere—very reasonable prices. Why is it that the Government feel obliged, for philosophical reasons and no doubt because they want to add to the already brimful, overflowing Treasury, to upset the industry in this way?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, perhaps the noble Lord would like to study the Question on the Order Paper. He will then see that his supplementary question is way wide of the main Question.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, does the Minister agree, as has been stated, that there may be little possibility of genuine competition, that if we move too swiftly there may be very serious deleterious effects on a great industry and that the repercussions could affect almost all of British industry? Therefore should not the Government, for purely doctrinaire reasons, take great care in what they do with this country's electricity industry?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I note what the noble Lord says.
§ Lord EzraMy Lords, although the Minister indicated that there had been no Green Papers issued 932 in connection with other privatisation measures, nevertheless there have been discussion documents, for example in the case of the water industry. Therefore does he agree that in view of the very great public interest in this matter, some of which may or may not be well informed, it would be useful in advance of a final government announcement to have a discussion document so as to focus debate on the essential issues?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, having said that I do not think so, I must say that I still do not think so.
§ Lord Peyton of YeovilMy Lords, will my noble friend be good enough to convey to his right honourable friend that there are considerable fears that there may be hazards in meddling with the present integrated system which has worked well and at times under great pressure, particularly when the benefits from doing so are not all that obvious?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, all changes can involve hazards. I suggest that my noble friend should wait until he sees the White Paper before making up his mind so definitely.
§ Lord DiamondMy Lords, would it make the slightest difference on this issue whatever question we ask the Minister?.
§ Viscount DavidsonNot at the moment, my Lords.
§ Lord Stoddart of SwindonMy Lords, the Minister has not answered the Question that his noble friend asked him. The Government have been quite prepared to discuss at great length with the moguls of the electricity industry how it will be privatised. Why do they not consult the owners of the industry—that is us?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I really do take exception to the noble Lord saying that I did not answer the Question of my noble friend. He asked me when the Government expected to announce their plans for the future of the electricity supply industry. I answered, "in due course". My noble friend also asked me whether the Government intended to publish a Green Paper; I replied, no.
Lord MorrisMy Lords, how do her Majesty's Government plan to avoid the problem that they had with the privatisation of British Telecom, in that the flotation was in direct conflict with the reason for the privatisation, namely to set up a competitive environment? In other words, I am suggesting that the flotation was in direct conflict with that aim.
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I would advise my noble friend to await the publication of the White Paper.
§ Lord LeatherlandMy Lords, is not the Minister aware of the fact that our supplies of electricity seem very satisfactory at present? Would it not be more to the credit of the Government if instead of messing about with electricity they brought down the numbers of unemployed?
§ Visount DavidsonMy Lords, I think that that is outside the scope of the original Question.
§ Lord KennetMy Lords, does the Minister realise that many Members of the House will be interested in whether he can answer the second supplementary question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Peyton of Yeovil? That Question was, if I remember rightly, whether the Minister would be good enough to convey to the Secretary of State the objections which have been raised in many quarters in the House about the lack of a consultation document.
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I apologise if I did not reply to my noble friend. I shall of course do so.
§ Lord LeatherlandMy Lords, when I questioned the Minister I asked him whether the Government could do anything to bring down the number of unemployed. He did not mention that in his comments. Is that because the number is so big that the Government can hardly visualise it?
§ Viscount DavidsonMy Lords, I am sorry to say that the original Question is about electricity and not about the unemployed.