HL Deb 19 February 1988 vol 493 cc853-6
Lord Molloy

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will give consideration to organising a conference of representatives from the professional organisations of nurses, midwives, health visitors, doctors and surgeons, to examine with senior officials of the Department of Health and Social Security the problems of the National Health Service.

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, the noble Lord will be aware from statements made in another place that the Government are currently conducting a wide-ranging, internal review of the National Health Service. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State has made it plain that, as part of this review, he would welcome constructive proposals from any organisation. At all times our overriding concern is our commitment to secure good quality health care for all who need it, as the fundamental principle of the National Health Service.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Earl for that Answer. Does he agree that the Secretary of State should have included representatives of the Chartered Society of Physiotherapy? Will he please explain to the House how what he has just said lines up with the statements made today in the British press that the Chancellor of the Exchequer is not prepared to provide one halfpenny for the National Health Service? If that is so, where are the improvements coming from?

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, the statements made in the British press today must be regarded as somewhat speculative.

Lord Bottomley

My Lords, while I recognise that the Government are doing all they can to consult separate organisations, surely there is an advantage in calling together collectively all those representatives of the National Health Service so that the Government know from all the professions what pressures they are under.

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, as the noble Lord is aware, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Social Services and his colleagues and officials have regular meetings with representatives from the professional organisations. I am sure that there will be opportunities to discuss any evidence that is submitted.

Lord Mellish

My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that the Government's public relations with regard to the National Health Service are deplorable? One cannot ignore the fact that the tabloids this morning are full of headlines saying that the Government are depriving the NHS of funds. Those of us who know something about the subject, know those reports to be untrue. It is not good enough for the Minister to say that merely because he says something on the Floor of your Lordships' House, or anywhere else, that that is the answer. If an inquiry is going on, and I have no doubt that it is, surely the time is well overdue when the nation—not necessarily the House of Lords—should be told blow by blow what is being discussed, how it is being discussed, what is being implemented and how much it is costing. In other words, the Government must learn to fight back.

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, there are always large headlines in the national tabloids. I think that the point made by the noble Lord was covered in my original Answer. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State is conducting this serious and wide-ranging review and he will listen to any proposals that are put before him. I think that that is the most appropriate way to conduct the review.

Lord Auckland

My Lords, is it not a fact that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Social Services has already met a number of representatives? Is not the root of the problem a management one? If there is to be a meeting—obviously the review body must report first—is it not desirable that management rather than the bodies mentioned in the Question should meet the appropriate Ministers?

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, obviously the management of the National Health Service is one of the matters that is being considered by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State.

Lord Ennals

My Lords, are not both my noble friends right when they infer that a hastily conceived Government review team, made up of Ministers and senior civil servants, is unlikely to produce an unbiased and balanced appraisal and recommendations? If changes are to be made in a much beloved national service, surely the Government should listen to those who really know the situation and should be seeking a consensus.

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, as the noble Lord said, it is a much beloved National Health Service. As I have said before, anyone is at liberty to put their submissions to the Secretary of State.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, does the noble Earl agree that it has become obvious over the past few months that there is grave concern among the professions in the National Health Service and among the general public? We have the Whitley councils; I am proposing that the good work which is done by the Whitley councils be fed through to the organisations which I am proposing, which would be a kind of "cabinet" of the health service to assist the Government. Why do the Government always seem to be keen to put up a difficulty to every solution?

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, the whole point about Government is to try to solve problems and difficulties. However, I shall take on board the point which the noble Lord makes.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, no one in the House should expect the noble Earl to say anything about the budget. However, if it is true that the Chancellor has at his disposal £10 to £12 billion to hand out in one way or another, would the noble Earl convey to his right honourable friend that if he does not find a way of allocating some part of that enormous sum to the National Health Service, there will be profound disillusion in this country?

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, I understand very well what the noble Lord the Leader of the Opposition says. Of course I shall pass on those comments to my right honourable friend the Secretary of State.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that whatever the Chancellor does in the budget it will not be handing out; it will merely be taking less?

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, naturally I thank my noble friend for that extremely apposite remark.

Lord Leatherland

My Lords, will the noble Earl give us an assurance that the services now available to people under the National Health Service will not be reduced?

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, I should like to consider that; I need further notice of the question.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, does the noble Earl agree that if the proposition put forward by the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter, is made a reality, it will mean tax relief for the comfortably off and much more worry for the sick who cannot get an improved National Health Service?

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, taxation is a matter for the Chancellor. In an expanding economy it is quite possible both to cut taxes and to increase public spending on particular programmes. That is what the Government have done for the last eight years. Plans for the next three years reflect the continuing priority being given to health within public spending. The National Health Service will again increase its share of public spending.