§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government what action they have taken or propose to take to halt South African military activity in Angola.
§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Glenarthur)My Lords, we support United Nations Security Council Resolutions 602 of 25th November and 606 of 23rd December 1987, both of which called for the immediate withdrawal of South African troops from Angola. We continue to urge this upon the South African Government.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, while welcoming the statement of the noble Lord, can he tell the House whether it is the case that there are about 6,000 South African troops inside Angola not only fighting against the Angolan forces but also killing civilians and destroying crops? Can the Minister say whether the British Government are able to put their words of condemnation into practice by strengthening the opposition which they have expressed to this unprovoked aggression? Can they use their own offices to persuade or coerce the South Africans to withdraw their invading forces?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, we have repeatedly condemned violence in the region in the strongest terms. We are opposed to cross-border incursions of the kind that the noble Lord has described, in either direction. A military solution to this issue is unattainable. The problems of the region should be settled peacefully through negotiation. We support the efforts of both the United States and the United Nations Secretary-General.
§ Lord Cledwyn of PenrhosMy Lords, can the noble Lord say what progress has been made to implement the Security Council resolution of 23rd December which Her Majesty's Government supported? Secondly, can the Minister say what was the result of the talks held over the last fortnight between Mr. Chester Crocker and the Government of Angola? Is there any hope of a joint withdrawal of South African and Cuban troops from Angola?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, I am afraid that I am not in a position to give the noble Lord information on the part of his supplementary question in relation 648 to the recent visit of Mr. Crocker. As regards Resolution 606, the Secretary-General is due to report on that resolution later this month. Then we shall have a better idea of exactly how it should be taken forward.
Lord Paget of NorthamptonMy Lords, have we not a somewhat unbalanced picture here? Is it not a fact that the Russians have just committed a Lieutenant-General Shaganovich with a full divisional staff to take charge of the Soviet aggressive operations against an Angolan army? Is the Minister aware that that force, together with 40,000 Cubans under the command of a member of their politburo, was heavily defeated by Angolans supported by South African artillery on the Lomba river? They were driven back to Cuilo Cuanavale where they are at present in difficulties and besieged. There is every prospect of their being kicked out of the country. Is this not a matter of common cause and the first effective African resistance to communist occupation for us to express our gratitude—
Lord Paget of NorthamptonMy Lords, I have one more question to ask. Will the Minster convey to the South Africans that there are people in England who still remember with gratitude the soldiers who twice in our lifetime came to our aid when we were in trouble?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, I did not get all of the question asked by the noble Lord. But we support the United States Angolan negotiations aimed at reaching an acceptable timetable for the withdrawal of Cuban troops.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, in answer to my first supplementary question the Minister appeared to give an even-handed assessment of the situation in Angola. Am I wrong about that? Is it not the case that the South Africans have invaded Angola but that Angola has never invaded South Africa? Will the Minister answer the question as to whether the British Government can put their words into practice in supporting and giving teeth to the United Nations' resolution demanding withdrawal of an invading army against a sovereign state?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, in saying that we are opposed to cross-border incursions in either direction, I cannot see that anything but good can result from any inference the noble Lord might draw about being even-handed, as he chooses to call it. I do not believe that we are causing any difficulties whatever. Of course it is right that cross-border incursions of that kind in either direction should be opposed. We have encouraged neighbouring countries to seek a peaceful solution of their differences and to co-operate on matters of regional concern.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, has the noble Lord any information as to whether there have been any—
§ Lord FerrierMy Lords, can the noble Lord say whether the figure of 40,000 Cuban troops in Angola, which the noble Lord, Lord Paget, mentioned, is approximately correct?
§ Lord GlenarthurApproximately, yes, my Lords.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, do the Government have any information to support the view apparently implied by the noble Lord that there have been cross-border incursions from Angola into South Africa?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, I do not have that information. If the noble Lord has, I shall be delighted to hear it. The important thing is that we should continue to be opposed to cross-border incursion in either direction.
§ Lord GisboroughMy Lords, in the event that South Africa should withdraw its troops, does my noble friend think it likely that there will be free and fair elections while there are 40,000 Cubans in Angola?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, the important thing is to secure South African withdrawal. That is precisely what Resolution 602 and Resolution 606, which followed, seek to achieve.