§ 2.50 p.m.
§ Lord GridleyMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps they are taking, in conjunction with British Telecom, to ensure that the traditional red telephone boxes are preserved and maintained.
The Minister of State, Department of the Environment (The Earl of Caithness)My Lords, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State recently announced that he will be listing, in England, a further 500 traditional red kiosks as buildings of special architectural or historical interest.
§ Lord GridleyMy Lords. I am grateful to my noble friend for that Answer. Can he confirm that in respect of the K6 red telephone boxes the 1,000 to be listed were designed in 1936 by Giles Gilbert Scott and that it is this design which we now wish to preserve for our heritage?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords. I can confirm that we are in principle talking about the K6. Out of the 1,000 that are to be listed, 554 have already been listed. In addition, more than 200 examples of the earlier K2 model have also been listed.
§ Lord Graham of EdmontonMy Lords, does the Minister agree that consultations between himself and British Telecom could be better used to ensure that traditional services are preserved and maintained? I know that we can take most things from the Ministry as read! However, when we are considering service to the consumer, surely it would be more profitable to ensure not only that red boxes are available but that the telephones in them are maintained and serviced, and that the consumers interest in respect of access to the telephone and the charges being made by British Telecom is pursued with vigour.
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Graham of Edmonton, is ingenious in turning a Question about listing into a question about servicing.
The Earl of HalsburyMy Lords, can the Minister confirm that Dr. Who's Tardis will be included in the preservation?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, if the noble Earl, Lord Halsbury, can find Dr. Who's Tardis I am sure that my noble friend Lord Montagu of Beaulieu, who is the Government's adviser as chairman of English Heritage, will come to the rescue and recommend the listing of it.
Lord Campbell of CroyMy Lords, as well as the traditional red telephone boxes, will the Government in concert with British Telecom also preserve and maintain new telephone boxes by ensuring that they are kept in order, that the full coin boxes are emptied and that they are protected from vandalism?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, with respect to my noble friend, that is rather wide of the Question on the Order Paper.
§ Baroness Macleod of BorveMy Lords will my noble friend agree that red telephone boxes are very much more visible? The new ones are very difficult to see when one is travelling in the dark or in a fog. The red telephone boxes are always visible and it would be helpful if we could have more of them.
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, my noble friend will be pleased that we are keeping so many of the red telephone boxes.
§ Lord Montagu of BeaulieuMy Lords, may I take this opportunity to congratulate the Secretary of State for the Environment on the efficiency with which the English Heritage's listing recommendations have been handled by his department? May I also assure——
§ Lord Montagu of BeaulieuMy Lords, may I also ask the noble Earl——
§ Lord Montagu of Beaulieu—whether he is aware that we have had a full-time inspector employed on the listing of kiosks since last June and that we have been greatly encouraged by the thousands of letters we have received from the general public expressing their preference for the Gilbert Scott award-winning design of 50 years ago to the modern ones that have been put up, especially in conservation areas?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend, and I am sure that the whole House is grateful to him for the work that he does with English Heritage in recommending the listing of these boxes.
§ Baroness Carnegy of LourMy Lords, is the Minister aware that the pleasure of holding on to a large number of these red telephone boxes will spread further than this country? When I asked a Question in the House some time ago your Lordships' discussion was recorded far afield, including in the press of South Australia, where I am sure this decision will give great pleasure.
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, I am delighted that the red telephone box is becoming increasingly famous.
§ Lord TordoffMy Lords, is it not the case, though, that the red telephone box is not universally approved, particularly by those people who are disabled, who find the doors extremely heavy to open, and those of us who find that they have been used as public conveniences? Is the Minister aware that, although they are not perfect, the new telephone boxes are better from this point of view?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, the noble Lord makes a valid point. One of the reasons for the change in the design is that some of the earlier telephone boxes which we are listing were not the most salubrious of places to go into.