HL Deb 11 February 1988 vol 493 cc315-7

3.21 p.m.

Lord Gainford

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will encourage the wider availability of tickets for public transport through retail outlets such as newsagents and tobacconists.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Transport (Lord Brabazon of Tara)

My Lords, it is for the operators of public passenger transport services to decide what arrangements to make for the sale of their tickets, but the Government are pleased to note that such sensible arrangements are already widespread.

Lord Gainford

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. In view of the fact that we share so many ideas with the Continent of Europe, can my noble friend see any way of encouraging those in charge of transport services to make tickets available, as they are on the Continent, in places other than bus and railway stations? That would save a considerable amount of patience-straining and queuing at ticket offices.

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, there are, of course, already extensive arrangements in London and elsewhere for the sale of travel cards through newsagents and so on. In addition, British Rail sell tickets in some local shops for local journeys in the provincial sector. Tickets are also available from travel agents.

Lord Tordoff

My Lords, does not the Minister agree that the deregulation of buses makes this more difficult than it would otherwise have been?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

No, my Lords. One of the measures in the Transport Act 1985 was an amendment to the Post Offices Act which allowed the sale of tickets at post offices.

Lord Parry

My Lords, does not the Minister accept that there is evidence of an increasing use of local railway stations? People still use, and are increasingly using, trains. Those of us who use those services would be extremely reluctant to see any change in service brought about by the removal of the sale of tickets to private sources scattered around the area. Does not the Minister accept that the low level of staffing of railways stations may cause queues and that those jobs in the railway stations are vital to small communities?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, I do not think that there is any question of tickets not being available for sale at stations; it is a question of where else tickets might be offered for sale if' that is convenient for passengers. I should point out that the objective set to British Rail last summer by my honourable friend the Minister of State for Transport was that there should be maximum queueing time at ticket offices of three minutes during off-peak periods and five minutes during peak periods.

Lord Underhill

My Lords, does the Minister recall that on 29th April we had a considerable exchange of supplementary questions arising from a main Question tabled by my noble friend Lord Graham of Edmonton regarding the reduction of commission to travel agents? It would be interesting to hear from the Minister what has been the result because most people found that the supply of tickets from travel agencies was extremely useful.

Does not the Minister also agree that, if there is any arrangement for British Rail tickets to be obtained from, say, tobacconists, that would be useless unless those outlets also had time-tables to advise people accordingly. As regards London Regional Transport——

Noble Lords

Speech!

Lord Underhill

My Lords, I am not making a speech. As regards London Regional Transport, to which the Minister referred, has he considered the supply of a wodge of tickets for occasional users in order to save difficulties for drivers of one-person operated buses?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, the noble Lord asked a number of questions. As far as I know, the matter relating to commission paid by BR to the travel agents was settled between the travel agents and British Rail. However, whether it was settled to the satisfaction of the travel agents I do not know. In any case, tickets are still available for sale at selected travel agents.

As regards the sale of passes by London Regional Transport and the one-person operated buses, tickets are extensively sold at newsagents and elsewhere in London. Taken with pensioners' passes and other concessionary tickets, nearly 70 per cent. of bus passengers now use passes as opposed to cash.

Forward to