HL Deb 09 February 1988 vol 493 cc100-1

3.5 p.m.

Lord Oram

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will invite to London Mr. Federico Mayor, the Director-General of UNESCO, to discuss this country's relationship with his organisation.

The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Glenarthur)

My Lords, we have told Professor Mayor that we would be happy to meet him, should he decide to come to London.

Lord Oram

My Lords, since Mr. Mayor has indicated a positive attitude to reforms of UNESCO's operations, is it not important to discover to what extent his proposed reforms match up to those that Her Majesty's Government have indicated to be desirable? In order for such an assessment to be made, is it not best to have a face-to-face meeting, and should not the invitation to Mr. Mayor be direct and official rather than a mere indication that a Minister will talk to him if he happens to be in London on other business?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, I think it is important to remember that Mr. Mayor has only just taken over. He has a great deal to read up about the important responsibilities he has taken over. However, we welcome any sign, such as the change of director-general, which may indicate that UNESCO is getting back on the right track.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, is it not the case that Her Majesty's Government warmly welcomed the appointment of Mr. Mayor? Can the Minister tell the House precisely what conditions the Government wish to see fulfilled before they are able to rejoin UNESCO?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, broadly, we need to see clearer signs of the need for change. That there is such a need is widely recognised at UNESCO and fundamental reforms are under way. I am sure that the noble Lord will appreciate that the change of director-general—important though it is—is only a start. It is not just a question of personalities. The need for wide-ranging reforms remains.

Lord Beloff

My Lords, while we must all sympathise with Señor Mayor in his endeavours to cleanse the Augean stables of UNESCO, is it not a fact that the money we have saved from our subscription to that body is being more usefully and directly employed in the Commonwealth Scholarship Scheme? Is it not important that we should consider matters of that kind before any question of rejoining the organisation is taken up?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, my noble friend is quite right that funds saved from our former contribution to UNESCO are now spent specifically on worthwhile educational and scientific schemes of practical value to third world countries. We are not convinced that money would be put to such effective use by UNESCO in its present state. The important matter is that we see the wide-ranging reforms to which I have referred.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, does the Minister not agree that in addition to some of the bad and disturbing aspects of UNESCO, there is also a very good human aspect to be considered? If the present director-general wishes to introduce reforms and resolve some of the serious problems afflicting UNESCO, would it not be a good idea for him to come to this country and talk to our Government in the interests of UNESCO, Britain and the rest of humanity?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, I agree that it is important that these wide-ranging reforms are taken forward. As I have said, we are in no way discouraging Professor Mayor from coming to London. Indeed, arrangements had been made for a meeting earlier this year; it was Professor Mayor himself who unfortunately had to call the meeting off.