Building Industry: Training (Hansard, 15 December 1988)

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, the Government have always believed that the primary responsibility for training skilled operatives in the building industry rests with employers. The Government will continue to provide support for training through their youth and adult training programmes and by establishing the right framework at local industry and national levels to produce a more flexible, adaptable and highly skilled workforce.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, I am grateful for that reply but is the Minister aware that, following the issue of the recent Government White Paper on training, views have been forcefully expressed by some of the major builders and the major trade union in the building industry, UCATT, that the present arrangements ought to be continued? They have served the industry well. If there is any desire to consider a change I ask the Minister to give an undertaking that there will be full consultation with everyone concerned in the building industry in order to arrive at the right conclusions.

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, it is the firm intention of Ministers to have a meeting with the chairman of the board shortly after Christmas. The purpose of that meeting will be to invite the chairman to draw up plans, including a timetable, for moving his board away from its reliance on a statutory levy and becoming an independent non-statutory body. 1026 That, of course, is one of the government policies referred to in the recent White Paper.

§ Lord Mellish
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the National Federation of Building Trade Employers always had, I think—in fact, most people think—one of the finest training schemes possible? Can the Minister assure me that it will not be interfered with in any way and, in fact, will be improved upon?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, the objective of any government policy in this or any other area is to improve on the training situation in any particular industry. I am confident that the discussions will result in an improvement in skill training in the construction industry.

Lord Morris
My Lords, can my noble friend tell me what "an operative" means?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, without a dictionary in front of me I suggest it probably means one who operates.

§ Baroness Turner of Camden
My Lords, does not the Minister agree that the accident rate in the construction industry is still unacceptably high? Last year more than 17 additional deaths occurred. Does not the Minister agree that that is probably attributable to the use of unskilled and untrained lump labour in the industry? Will the Minister be good enough to tell the House what arrangements are being made for safety training in the industry and for an improvement in the safety inspectorate?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
Yes, my Lords, the noble Baroness is right. There is absolutely no reason to be complacent about the number of accidents in the building industry. The care taken within the youth training scheme to train in accident avoidance has been increased substantially in the past year or so. I have no information on the other point raised by the noble Baroness and will have to write to her.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the National Federation of Building Trade Employers and the trade unions are of the opinion that a concerted assault on the growing shortage of housing in Great Britain would resolve the problem? That would assist the employers and the trade unions to carry out many of the schemes that they have in mind but have not yet been able to carry out because they are not receiving the orders necessary, particularly in regard to providing more homes.

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, I am confused by that question. At present the construction industry is booming and has been for some considerable time. This Question refers particularly to skill shortages in the building industry. Any arrangements for the future provision of training will have to take the noble Lord's point into account.

§ Baroness Turner of Camden
My Lords, will the Minister be good enough to look at the possibility of increasing the number of inspectors in view of the present accident rate in the industry?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
Yes, my Lords, I shall certainly pass that point on to my right honourable friend.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, is the Minister aware that under directives of the EC due to come into force in 1990 there may be a massive penetration in our building industry by our partners in the EC? If that takes place will the Government ensure that it does not happen at the expense of training our own young people in skills in the industry which they will need to rely on in the future?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, I am not immediately aware of the EC document to which the noble Lord refers. Many of your Lordships will have seen an article in The Sunday Times last Sunday about recruitment of foreign workers to deal with the skill shortages in the construction industry, which has been apparent for some time and has recently increased. However, I should make the point that the mobility of construction workers has always been an important feature of the industry and will no doubt increase with the advent of the single market in 1992. Employers must ensure that they invest in training to produce workers with the right skills at the right time and, I should add, at the right locations.

§ The Countess of Mar
My Lords, can the Minister explain why the old-fashioned apprenticeships in the construction industry have fallen by the wayside and why the construction industry now expects the Government to train their employees for them?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, it is not the Government who are training the employees but the construction industry training board. However, I agree with those detractors of apprenticeships that the existence of only one form of training to one level of competence is most certainly outdated. The time is overdue for a flexible modular system of training which will cover training to an advanced craft level and which will also allow employers and workforce to train and retrain to gain the skill levels appropriate to need.