London Underground Rail Services (Hansard, 14 December 1988)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Transport (Lord Brabazon of Tara)
My Lords, the Government have approved investment of over £100 million since October 1986 on measures to relieve Underground congestion in addition to the modernisation of the Central Line at a cost of £720 million. Some of this is already beginning to have an impact. But more must be done. It was for that reason that the Secretary of State for Transport launched the Central London Rail Study in March. The study is developing a strategy to improve London's rail services and cater for demand to the end of the century. Its findings will be published in the New Year.

§ Lord Nugent of Guildford
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that very helpful Answer. I congratulate him on the extra resources that the Government have placed at the disposal of London Regional Transport for this purpose. However, although 1 congratulate him on the dramatic improvement in the appearance of the stations, is he aware that the service is still defective? Far too often there is delay due to defective signalling or rolling stock, and this causes increased congestion and then further delays. Will my noble friend direct the attention of the management to taking further care to see that these faults do not occur?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, yes, of course. As I said in my original Answer, much more still needs to be done. Included in the investment programme over the next three years is £200 million on a major continuing renewal programme for track, signalling, structures, lifts and escalators; the repair of track, tunnel, stations, bridges and so on; resignalling on the Metropolitan and District Lines; modernisation of the signal control and communication systems; and new lifts and escalators at some 20 stations. In addition to that, there are 16 new, additional trains being built which should come into service next year.

§ Lord Bottomley
My Lords, is it intended to allocate any money to the escalator system, which seems to be continually breaking down?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, part of the £200 million is involved in escalators. This is in addition to the £266 million which has been allocated specifically for safety measures resulting from the Fennell Report, which we debated on Monday. It involves a good deal of work on the wooden escalators.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, in the light of recent events since the King's Cross fire, will my noble friend urge London Underground to concentrate on the provision of greater safety and in particular on providing unobstructed egress from all Underground stations while in service?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, as I said on Monday, £266 million will be spent specifically on safety measures and finance will not be a barrier to implementing any of the Fennell recommendations. On egress from stations, my noble friend is probably referring to the automatic barrier system. This is also being reviewed.

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, does the noble Lord agree that many of these matters were considered during our debate on Monday on the King's Cross tragedy? Does he not also agree that there was a general feeling throughout the House that finance must not play any part in any requirements to improve safety?
The Central London Rail Study may well decide that there should be additional Underground lines and this could run into very large sums. While the Government cannot give an undertaking now, will they bear in mind that if the increase has to be borne by the passengers, that will be of no real value? All that will happen is that fares will increase, which will bring more motorists into central London, which will increase the problem.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord that we had a good debate on Monday on the general topic. Indeed the figures that I announced then gave some indication of the amounts of money and the undertakings that have been made on safety measures.
I cannot comment on the Central London Rail Study until it is published in the New Year. However, the question of paying for any new lines and so on will be addressed at that time.

§ Lady Saltoun of Abernethy
My Lords, do the Government have any plans to have a direct line and a station to Battersea?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, no, not at present. That may or may not be a matter to come up in the Central London Rail Study.

§ Lord Campbell of Alloway
My Lords, in the context of the Question on the improvement of services, how many of the workforce who operate these trains, drivers and signalmen, are on the executive board of management?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I am not quite sure what my noble friend means by train drivers and 935 so on being on the board. The board of London Regional Transport is appointed by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State.

§ Lord Campbell of Alloway
My Lords, I am aware of the answer which my noble friend gave, but surely there is a further question to be answered along the lines which I suggested to my noble friend.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I can only take note of my noble friend's request.

§ Lord Glenamara
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that one escalator at Pimlico station has been out of order for months on end during the past year? This is one of the newest stations in the system and that escalator has now been out of order for many weeks. Is he aware that there are 85 steps and that many old people who live in one-bedroomed flats near the station, including a number of your Lordships, find those 85 steps a great burden? Why must that escalator be out of order for so long, with no work being carried out on it?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I cannot answer specific questions on individual Underground stations around London. That is not a matter for the Government but is a matter for the board of London Regional Transport. No doubt the noble Lord will wish to make his complaint to them.

Lord Winstanley
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that we are deeply impressed by the extremely high quality of the report by Mr. Fennell into these matters? Will he also accept that an escalating problem facing London Underground is that there are too many people in London? I should be interested to hear whether the noble Lord has any suggestions as to how we could deal with that matter.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I am not sure how that problem should be dealt with but the noble Lord makes a good point. Patronage of the London Underground is 80 per cent. up on the past six years, which is contrary to everything that the planners previously told us.

The Earl of Halsbury
My Lords, could the population of London be catered for by promoting the sale of eggs?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I do not think that it would be wise for me to enter into a debate on that.

§ Lord Glenamara
My Lords, the noble Lord's reply to me was extremely unhelpful and constitutionally wrong. London Underground is publicly owned and in the last analysis the Government are responsible. I expect him to hand on my complaint to the London Underground. That is what he is there for and that is what he is paid for.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, without looking at the Standing Orders, I believe that it is not 936 appropriate to answer specific questions on the nationalised industries. I am giving a general overview of the Government's policy towards London Transport. If the noble Lord expects me to have details of every single Underground station in London and what might or might not be wrong with one escalator or lift, then I am afraid he is mistaken.

§ Lord John-Mackie
My Lords, as regards extensions, as mentioned by the noble Lady, Lady Saltoun, can we have an extension on the Victoria Line through to Harlow, which would save the appalling congestion at Liverpool Street?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, as I have said, the Central London Rail Study will be published in the New Year. I do not know what recommendations that will contain.

§ Baroness Burton of Coventry
My Lords, if the Minister does not have the information on my question, perhaps he will write to me. Is he aware that many of us who use the Circle Line and have used it for years consider that it is almost dropping to pieces? Is he further aware that in all that I have read about the alterations and reforms on the Underground system, I have not read one thing about the Circle Line? Perhaps the Minister would be good enough to refer that to 55 Broadway, where he will find that they know what I have been trying to do. Will he write to me about that matter?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I shall certainly do that. At present 16 new trains are being constructed, and I mentioned the Metropolitan and District Lines. I am not sure whether that would apply to part of the Circle Line.

§ Baroness Burton of Coventry
My Lords, I do not think that the new trains would be compatible with the present rails on the Circle Line.