Navigation Lights: Dues (Hansard, 1 December 1988)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Transport (Lord Brabazon of Tara)
My Lords, the Government's policy is that, so far as is practicable, the users should meet the costs of the aids to navigation provided by the general lighthouse authorities. Last year we extended light dues liability to the larger fishing vessels following the transfer of the costs of the Decca Navigation system to the 403 General Lighthouse Fund. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State announced in another place on 7th November that he was inviting the British Ports Federation to undertake a study on the feasibility of charging light dues to pleasure craft.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply which indicates movement in a direction suggested previously at Question Time. While no one likes to pay a new impost, is my noble friend aware that the Government will receive general support for applying the principle that costs should be met by users? Until very recently those costs, and their burden, have been met by very few users.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, that is true. The purpose of the study we have invited the British Ports Federation to undertake is to see whether it is a practicable proposition. However, I cannot really say more about it at this stage.

§ Lord Grimond
My Lords, can the Minister tell us how our charges compare with those of other countries?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, there are many ways in which other countries pay for navigational aids. In a good many countries in Europe it is a charge on central taxation; other countries have a similar system to our own.

§ Lord Grimond
My Lords, can the Minister say what is the level of the charges? Are they higher or lower?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, where the cost is met by central taxation, there is, of course, no charge for light dues. In relation to elsewhere I cannot say, without notice, exactly how charges compare.

Lord Harlington
My Lords, can my noble friend say whether there is any intention to move against the owners of small vessels? As there are a great many of them, I should have thought that that would create a difficulty in collection. I hope that there is no question of moving from the larger vessels which are now being charged to the smaller ones.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I would not wish to anticipate any decisions to be taken following the proposed study. Ideally, the charge should be targeted at sea-going craft and the administration of any scheme would have to be sensibly based to allow proper enforcement.

§ Lord Carmichael of Kelvingrove
My Lords, may I reinforce the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Grimond? The Minister must be aware from our debate on the docks and harbours legislation that there is great discrepancy on the Continent as against British ports. I hope that the Government will be careful not to discriminate, adding charges which will disadvantage the British ports.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, there is no question of any additional charges being caused by anything I have said today. It is merely a reallocation, or possible reallocation, of the existing charges, first to spread the net a little wider and, secondly, to correct some discrepancies in a system which has basically remained unaltered this century.

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, as the owner of a small vessel who has some objection to paying additional taxation, may 1, nevertheless, ask whether such a system would not have its advantages? For many years I kept a craft on the Yugoslavian coast where all pleasure craft were licensed. That system caused no trouble whatever; it paid for the many lights needed on that coast; and it also had many additional advantages of which the noble Lord might be interested to hear.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I should be delighted to hear from the noble Viscount of his experiences in Yugoslavia; but as I said in my original Answer, we feel that the user should, where possible, pay.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, bearing in mind that our neighbours in Europe meet those cost from general taxation, to the disadvantage of our ports, and taking into account the question put by the noble Lord, Lord Grimond, will the Government try to reduce those costs and to rationalise the navigational aids which are still needed for the future?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, through our agents (the general lighthouse authorities) we have succeeded in reducing those costs. Last year they were down by 10 per cent., and I hope that we shall see a similar reduction in the coming year.

§ Lord Ferrier
My Lords, will my noble friend assure the House that the Government are keeping in touch with the yachtsmen?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, we have been in touch with the Royal Yachting Association about our proposals, but, as I have said, the matter is at an early stage.

§ Lord Greenway
My Lords, the Minister has said from that self-same Dispatch Box on a number of occasions recently that it is not practical to charge yachtsmen. But in view of the sudden volte-face, if the new scheme at which the ports are looking proves to be practical, will the Government ensure that it is fair and includes foreign yachtsmen, who are also great users of our lights?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, as I said, the matter is at an early stage. We have asked the PPF to look into it. The main point is that the system must be fair and should be targeted on those who use the navigational aids, be they foreign or British.