Common Land Forum Report (Hansard, 1 December 1988)

The Minister of State, Department of the Environment (The Earl of Caithness)
My Lords, we intend to introduce legislation based broadly on the report of the Common Land Forum at a suitable opportunity when parliamentary time permits.

§ Baroness Nicol
My Lords, I thank the Minister for replying, but does he appreciate that that is a very disappointing Answer? Is he aware that during the long discussions which there have been on this report deregistration of commons has proceeded apace? Can he explain why discussions are taking so long? I understand that a large measure of agreement has been reached by most of the parties concerned. Is the noble Earl now saying that there is a new government criterion for legislation that we must have 100 per cent. agreement before we can proceed? If that is so, we shall look for a very different attitude on forthcoming legislation.

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, there are a number of issues still arising out of the January 1987 consultation paper which are still being actively pursued.
On deregistration, the noble Baroness raises an important point. I can inform the House that there is a case coming before your Lordships in another capacity. The ruling on it will be critical for the decision which the Government take.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, is the Minister aware that under the existing legislation the amount of common land is diminishing quite considerably? Will he ask his colleagues in government whether under existing legislation there can be some form of moratorium until the discussions to which he referred and the subsequent legislation are brought before both another place and your Lordships' House?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, if common land is to be deregistered, I repeat that we have to await the decision on the Hampshire County Council case. Until we get that, it would be wrong to take further action at the moment.

§ Baroness Nicol
My Lords, I must press the Minister a little on his Answer. Can he tell us why this legislation is now held up? In response to questions last year we were given to understand that as soon as agreement had been reached with the Moorlands Association there would be no further bar to bringing legislation forward. Is he saying that agreement has not yet been reached, or is he saying that it has been reached and legislation is still not forthcoming? We need a little more information.

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I am delighted to help the noble Baroness. She is right in saying that agreement has not yet been reached among the various parties concerned with access to the heather commons and those lands that involve grousemoors. The Countryside Commission has negotiations in hand at the moment and has submitted its own set of proposals in August. The Moorlands Association has also made further representations; that is why dicussions are continuing.

Lord Hunt
My Lords, is it not a fact that the Moorlands Association alone of those involved in this matter has been holding up the agreement all along on the proposals of the Common Land Forum? Is it right that a numerically vey small body should hold up the consensus of the very large number of other bodies, including farmers. the Country Landowners' Association and the conservation bodies?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, although that body might, compared with some other associations, be considered numerically small, it is nevertheless very important. Those who pursue access to the countryside such as the ramblers and the Open Spaces Society are also involved in the discussions and are not happy with some of the proposals put forward, as 1 understand it.

§ Lord Gisborough
My Lords, in view of the very heavy cost of maintenance of heather moorlands in the North of England, does the Minister agree that it is absolutely vital that the forces for access should not drive out the forces prepared to spend the money to put moorlands in a condition in which people wish to go to see them?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, of course there are certain rights of access over commons, which as your Lordships will appreciate are privately owned property subject to common grazing rights. They are not common land as perhaps one might interpret it. It is necessary to weigh the balance between access and the rights of those who derive a living from the land and who live locally.

§ Lord Taylor of Gryfe
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the largest area of land in common ownership in this country belongs to the Forestry Commission, with appropriate access agreements for ramblers and others? Can he give us an assurance that there are no plans to privatise the Forestry Commission and therefore take that land out of common ownership?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, with respect, that is a separate question from the one on the Order Paper. The noble Lord has very strong views on this matter. Those views are not perhaps entirely in agreement with those of some other noble Lords. However, if the noble Lord wishes to write to me I shall be happy to try to answer him.