HL Deb 25 April 1988 vol 496 cc7-8

2.53 p.m.

Lord St. John of Fawsley asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether, following the abolition of the Inner London Education Authority, they will take steps to ensure that the Geffrye and Horniman museums continue to be available to the public.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Education and Science (Baroness Hooper)

My Lords, the answer is, yes. The Government have made it clear that we wish to ensure a secure future for these two museums.

Lord St. John of Fawsley

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that helpful and constructive reply. Will she consider giving trustee status to the Horniman Museum so that it may be both nationally and privately funded? Will she consider the making of the Geffrye Museum an outstation of the Museum of London? Is she aware that her helpful reply today has done much to allay the doubts of those who fully support government education policy but are nervous about the effect of the abolition of ILEA on the arts, which, to be fair to ILEA, is one of the matters it handled well?

Baroness Hooper

My Lords, the proposals put forward by my noble friend are two of the possibilities that are under consideration. We certainly recognise the concern expressed about the need for satisfactory long-term financial arrangements and we hope that a final announcement will be possible soon.

Lord Strabolgi

My Lords, while I welcome the noble Baroness's reply and the Government's decision, will she confirm that in their new status the two museums will not be given the right to sell items from their collections, as I believe is planned by the Government in connection with others?

Baroness Hooper

My Lords, I have no reason to believe that this has been suggested or indeed that it would be approved.

Lord Donaldson of Kingsbridge

My Lords, may I associate those on these Benches with the suggestions of the noble Lord, Lord St. John? Does the noble Baroness agree that the essential thing in keeping these two museums going is that the amount of money they have been receiving from ILEA should not in any way be reduced by the abolition of ILEA? An assurance on that matter would make everybody concerned very much happier.

Baroness Hooper

My Lords, I can give no final assurances in this respect but I can emphasise that we recognise the importance of the collections, and in particular the ethnographical collections at the Horniman. The museums provide a substantial service in the South-East, particularly to schools and colleges, and we are actively looking for ways to safeguard this service and to preserve the funding.

Lord Mellish

My Lords, can we take it for granted that these museums will not—I repeat "not"—be handed over to the local authorities, which are not competent to run them?

Baroness Hooper

My Lords, before a final decision is made, that must always be a possibility. However, at the moment, it seems unlikely.

Baroness David

My Lords, perhaps I may ask when a final answer will be given. My post is absolutely bulging with letters from people who are anxious about the future of these museums. It would be a great help to everybody if the noble Baroness could assure us that very soon a definite announcement will be made.

Baroness Hooper

My Lords, we are all conscious of the weight of our mailbags these days. However, I can do no more than assure the noble Baroness that the announcement will be made as soon as possible.

Lord Stewart of Fulham

My Lords, so far the noble Baroness has used the words "wish" and "hope" with regard to the future of the museums. Can she go a little further and say definitely that the museums will continue in existence?

Baroness Hooper

My Lords, in my original Answer I said that, we wish to ensure a secure future for these two museums". That should leave noble Lords in no doubt at all about our intentions on the subject.

Lord McNair

My Lords, in her deliberations, will the noble Baroness give due weight to the fact that the Horniman Museum is situated, roughly speaking, in Dulwich?

Baroness Hooper

Yes, my Lords.

Lord Birkett

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the solution embodied in the Question asked by the noble Lord, Lord St. John of Fawsley, regarding central funding for the Horniman and the Geffrye coming under the wing of the Museum of London, which I understand to be willing to act in loco parentis,would be sensible because the boroughs concerned might not be well equipped and also might be unable and unwilling to take over those responsibilities?

Baroness Hooper

Yes, my Lords, and as I said, those possibilities are under consideration.

The Earl of Halsbury

My Lords, is it not a matter that should be handed over to the Standing Commission on Museums and Galleries?

Baroness Hooper

My Lords, that may well be so. I shall certainly raise the point with my right honourable friend.