HL Deb 25 April 1988 vol 496 cc3-5

2.45 p.m.

Lord Carter asked Her Majesty's Government:

When they expect to publish the details of a set-aside and extensification scheme for agricultural land, and whether the scheme will include all the options set out in the European Commission proposals for such a scheme.

Lord Hesketh

My Lords, the European Commission's detailed legal rules for set-aside are expected to be adopted very shortly. Only then will the Government be in a position to determine how the scheme might be applied in the United Kingdom. An announcement will be made as soon as possible so that the scheme can apply for the 1988–89 marketing year. Decisions on the extensification scheme, which will depend on detailed Commission rules yet to be proposed, must await a later stage.

Lord Carter

My Lords, I thank the Minister for the reply. Perhaps he can say whether the Government are intending to include a grassland option, the so-called grazed fallow in the set-aside scheme? Is the Minister aware that this option has considerable support from environmentalists and from a substantial section of the farming community? Does the Minister agree that provided there are suitable safeguards to prevent an increase in breeding animals on grassland which has been set aside this would be a sensible option?

Lord Hesketh

My Lords, we are considering whether this option should apply in the United Kingdom. It has environmental advantages. We are concerned about the impact it might have on the livestock sector; there are also the difficulties of control. As regards this proposal, we have argued very strongly for very tightly drawn Community rules.

Lord Renton

My Lords, is not the noble Lord, Lord Carter, to be congratulated on adding to the richness of our language the word "extensification", or is it a word already well understood in farmyards throughout the United Kingdom?

Lord John-Mackie

My Lords, I know the difficulties which face the Minister over this question but delays are leading to a situation where farmers simply do not know what to do. If these delays affect the 1988–89 crop it is going to be very difficult for any farmer to plan ahead; we need something very soon.

In the set-aside discussions, I hope that any farmer who takes 20 per cent. of his land out of production—he is doing his bit in that respect—will not have to pay the levy. At present the levy has to be paid to help the situation. If a farmer takes out 20 per cent., can the Minister say whether a farmer will still have to pay the levy?

Lord Hesketh

My Lords, we are required by EC legislation to have the scheme in place by 1st July. The difficulty to date has been in finalising the rules. That is part of the point to which the noble Lord, Lord Carter, referred. We cannot actually devise the regulations. I hope, however, that very shortly this will be done.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, I apologise for asking a question so soon after my noble friend. Is it not the case that the upland farmers of this country are at present going through an extremely uncertain and difficult time and that they are worried about the likely future effect of Community policy upon their livelihood? Can the Minister say what effect the extensification policy will have upon the upland farmers of Britain?

Lord Hesketh

My Lords, in a way upland farmers already have an extensification policy by the very nature of their method of farming. In some ways it can be said that they set an example to us all.

Lord John-Mackie

My Lords, I asked the Minister a second question. It was whether, in the discussions, consideration is being given to the question of the levy against farmers who take 20 per cent. of their land out of production.

Lord Hesketh

My Lords, this question will depend upon the finalisation of the rules in Brussels. As I have said, I hope that this matter will be dealt with very shortly. Perhaps I may also take the opportunity of "attempting"—I believe that to be the right word—to answer the question of my noble friend Lord Renton. I hope very much that more and more farmers are beginning to understand the meaning of the word "extensification".

Lord Carter

My Lords, perhaps the Minister can explain to his noble friend Lord Renton that extensification is a piece of Euro-jargon. Perhaps the Minister can explain to his noble friend the exact difference between extensification and disintensification which is another piece of Euro-jargon.

Is the Minister aware that a reduction in the intensity of stocking of the United Kingdom population of cattle and sheep of one quarter of an acre per livestock unit would require an extra three million acres of grassland? Considering the various proposals for farm woodland, does the Minister agree that more grass and more trees would be an excellent prescription for agricultural policy?

Lord Hesketh

My Lords, I hope very much that one of the net results of the two items, set-aside and extensification, raised by today's Question will be what the noble Lord, Lord Carter, has just described.

Lord Kennet

My Lords, will the Government take the opportunity offered by this rethink to consider intensifying the employment of people for a given yield of a given agricultural product and disintensifying the application of chemicals to the land?

Lord Hesketh

My Lords, the basis of employment in the creation of food will at the end of the day be decided by the consumer.