HL Deb 19 April 1988 vol 495 cc1356-7

2.45 p.m.

Lord Chelwood asked Her Majesty's Government:

When and by whom they expect the meeting place of the European Parliament to be decided, and whether the endorsement of a decision by the Parliament would be subject to a veto in the Council of Ministers.

The Minister of State for Defence Procurement (Lord Trefgarne)

My Lords, under the EC Treaty, the permanent seats of the institutions are to be determined by common accord of the Governments of the member states; in other words, they would all have to agree. No proposal for such a decision is currently under discussion or is likely to be discussed in the foreseeable future.

Lord Chelwood

My Lords, that is a disappointing Answer. I should like to ask my noble friend whether he sees any prospect of common accord in the near or distant future as regards this matter? Secondly, is he aware that the perpetuum mobile between Strasbourg and Brussels, leaving out Luxembourg altogether, probably cost the European taxpayers £45 million last year and that, without doubt, since 1965 it has cost between £400 million and £500 million? Is that not both extremely wasteful and extremely inefficient?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I certainly agree that the present arrangements under which the European Parliament operates result in considerably increased costs. That is not a satisfactory situation. However, the fact remains that the member states of the Community must agree unanimously if any change is to be effected.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, will the noble Lord be more specific? Can he say whether Her Majesty's Government favour a single site? If so, what site do they favour; is it Strasbourg, Brussels or even Luxembourg?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I believe that the Government can be easily persuaded to accept a single site but we have no views as to where that should be. However, the fact remains that there is a good deal of sensitivity among the other member nations of the Community and the likelihood of unanimity in the near or middle-term is pretty remote.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that commodious premises suitable for occupation by the European Parliament will shortly be available on the other side of the river in the former County Hall?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, whether that particular location will be suitable I cannot say. Perhaps the way forward in this matter will be for members of the European Parliament to reach a concerted view. Then no doubt the members of the Community can consider the matter further.

Lord Kennet

My Lords, will the Government think again about not having a preference for a possible single site? Will they also consider what would have been the history of British democracy if this Parliament had never been allowed closer to London than Newcastle, which is approximately the same distance as between Strasbourg and Brussels?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, there is a considerable degree of sensitivity in relation to this matter among the other member nations, in particular, not surprisingly, those members in whose country the Parliament meets from time to time. I do not think that it would be helpful for the Government to declare an interest in the way suggested by the noble Lord. However, we recognise the difficulties created by the present arrangements and we shall support a proposition which brings those difficulties to an end.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that there is a widespread view, shared by many members of the European Parliament, that under no circumstances will France agree to the Parliament being moved from Strasbourg? Have Her Majesty's Government addressed themselves to that problem? Do Her Majesty's Government propose to use the best of their persuasive powers to talk with their French allies about this matter?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I am afraid that the problem is not as simple as the noble Lord suggests, because the European Parliament meets not only in Strasbourg but elsewhere. As I said earlier, the problem can be resolved only by unanimity among the members of the Community.

Lord Glenamara

My Lords, does the Minister agree that this country and the Community would be much better run if they were run from Newcastle?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, the noble Lord may well have a point but I dare say that there are other cities within the Community which would take the same view.

Lord Chelwood

My Lords, lest it be thought that I am as stuffy as I am told I sometimes look, may I ask my noble friend whether he is aware that for some five years I enjoyed enormously the fête champêtre in Strasbourg?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I am bound to say that I too have enjoyed the delights to which my noble friend refers.

Baroness Strange

My Lords, in view of the Auld Alliance, perhaps the French might agree to consider Edinburgh as a permanent site for everybody?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, sometimes an immovable object comes up against an irresistible force, and I daresay that this will be such a situation.