HL Deb 26 October 1987 vol 489 cc308-11

2.41 p.m.

Lord Renton

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will make a Statement about the responses of local authorities to the questions addressed to them for answer by 1st October regarding their plans for fulfilling their responsibilities under the Civil Defence Act 1948.

The Minister of State, Home Office (The Earl of Caithness)

My Lords, responses have been received from 47 out of the 54 county level local authorities who were requested to provide information about work programmes and plans. Of the remaining seven, three have promised replies very soon, and we are in touch with the others. The material provided is now being assessed.

Lord Renton

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply. Perhaps I may ask him whether the replies so far received reveal that all local authorities with statutory responsibility for protecting their people would be able and willing to do so in the event of there being another serious nuclear accident causing fall-out? Do they appear to be relying merely upon calling their areas nuclear-free zones and doing nothing?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, I think that it is a little early to give a comprehensive answer to my noble friend's Question because of the short time that we have had these reports. Analysis of them would give an indication of how local authorities are progressing with their civil defence planning and provide background for consideration of the budgets for 1988 and 1989. When further information is to hand I shall be delighted to let my noble friend know what it is.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, I apologise for intervening again. The noble Earl will recall that three and a half years ago the Government appointed an individual to co-ordinate the activities of the local authorities. The House was told at that time that he was very busy at his job and that in due course a report on the progress he was making would be given to the House and to the country. We never hear about his activity and it is very relevant to the Question which the noble Lord has just asked. Can the Minister tell us whether that individual is still in post, precisely what he is doing and what staff he has to help him?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, may I say to the noble Lord the Leader of the Opposition that I think the world "co-ordinate" is the wrong word to use in this respect? The person to whom the noble Lord refers is the civil defence adviser, who is very much in post. The position involves assisting in the consideration and development of arrangements for monitoring progress by local authorities, advising on the performances of local authorities, advising on the valuation of local authority applications for civil defence grant, participating in working groups, advising committees, undertaking various representational duties and serving on the editorial board of Civil Protection.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, he is a far more important man than I thought he was. His functions are very relevant to the Question. When does this adviser make a report? Has his report been published so that Parliament can discuss it?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, the civil defence adviser will play a key role in assessing the reports before us. I confirm to the noble Lord the Leader of the Opposition that we shall be presenting a further report in due course.

The Earl of Lauderdale

My Lords, will my noble friend add to what he has said? My noble friend referred to the functions of this adviser which, as I understand it, include monitoring progress so far made. Is it the case that in the course of monitoring he will know how many so-called nuclear-free zones there are and how many of those are in local authorities which are doing nothing about civil defence?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, my noble friend will be pleased to hear that the great majority of authorities have responded, and include a number of those under the style of nuclear-free zones. It appears that all local authorities are now co-operating but the full degree to which they are doing so will not be known until we have assessed the report.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, does not the noble Earl agree that there is a great difference between refusing to provide a non-existent defence against nuclear war and making adequate provision for the possibility of a nuclear accident? Does the noble Earl recognise that many who believe that the former is a waste of time nonetheless wish to make adequate provision for the latter?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, I am grateful that the noble Lord is at last beginning to realise the importance of civil defence.

Lord Renton

My Lords, bearing in mind that your Lordships have already waited several years for a full report on the performance of local authorities on these responsibilities, can my noble friend tell the House roughly when we may expect the full Statement to which he referred in his Answer to my Question?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, I think it is fair to say to the House that a clearer picture on the preparedness of local authorities should emerge between next April and next October. I hope that I shall then be able to answer my noble friend more clearly.

Viscount Mersey

My Lords, will my noble friend give us a guarantee now that when he discovers which local authorities are recalcitrant he will use his reserve powers to bring them to book?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, from my information I do not think that it is necessary for the Government to use their reserve powers at the moment. There are good reasons why we have not received the seven reports but they will be coming to us shortly.