London Underground: Graffiti (Hansard, 30 November 1987)

§ Lord Nugent of Guildford
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Transport (Lord Brabazon of Tara)
My Lords, action against this sort of vandalism is one of the priorities of the programme against crime which London Underground Limited are undertaking following the Department of Transport's report of last year on Crime on the London Underground. The Government have made £15 million available over three years for this programme.

§ Lord Nugent of Guildford
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that hopeful Answer. However, is he aware that this nuisance has now reached such serious proportions that pretty well every train on the Underground is defaced at least once a week? A large part of staff time is spent cleaning the trains of this kind of paint and ink which is particularly difficult to remove. Would my noble friend consider strengthening the police resources of London Underground so that it has a better prospect of catching the culprits?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I agree that there is a serious problem. It is estimated that it will cost London Underground three-quarters of a million pounds in the current year. As regards the police, the number of British Transport Police on the Underground has been increased by 25 per cent. in the past year, from 280 to 350 officers. Therefore the problem is taken very seriously.

§ Viscount Ingleby
My Lords, would it not be the most effective deterrent for those responsible to have to spend several hours of their own time cleaning up under police supervision?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, that would be a matter for the prosecuting authorities or the magistrates. However, I certainly think that it would be a very good idea.

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, does the Minister agree that normal crime (if one can use the word "normal") on the Underground is rather different from this matter of graffiti and vandalism to which the original Question referred? Could it not be connected with the diminution of staff, particularly on the suburban Underground stations? Those are frequently completely unstaffed. Has the Minister seen the scheme launched by the Tyne and Wear Passenger Transport Executive called Metro Watch, which is carrying out educational work, particularly in schools, and through publicity? It also pays special attention to patrols.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, executing graffiti is a crime whatever way one looks at it. I have not seen the Tyne and Wear scheme but I shall certainly look into that. The Government's programme has started with a pilot project in one 810 particular depot. Most of this damage is done to trains in depots and in sidings. That project is showing successful results. If it proves to be a success, it is capable of being extended over all the depots. I hope that that will have a good effect.

§ Lord Gainford
My Lords, I have been informed that certain railway stations actually provide some spaces which graffiti artists are encouraged to use instead of messing up trains and other places. Is there any truth in that, and has there been any result from it?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I have not heard that that is the case. I am not certain that we should do anything to encourage graffiti whether or not by providing places in which to do it.

§ Lord Annan
My Lords, will the noble Lord confirm that he will be following up the proposal that was mentioned a moment ago? That was in relation to the graffiti being cleaned up by first-offenders who have been sentenced to community service rather than sending such first-offenders to custodial sentence in prisons and institutions which are already overcrowded. Will the noble Lord also look into the question of whether this kind of work in community service is in any way being impeded by trade union restrictive practices?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I shall have to look into those questions as they do not specifically relate to the London Underground. It is certainly a matter for the magistrates, but I shall draw the attention of my right honourable friend to the noble Lord's remarks.

§ Lord Nugent of Guildford
My Lords, I hope my noble friend will be encouraged to do what he can to help London Transport at this time when it is spending some £80 million to improve the appearance of trains and stations. That will generally tend to reduce the risk of the unpleasant crimes we now see there. Will my noble friend kindly pursue the point that has been made about the kind of punishment that may be meted out to the culprits should they be caught?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I shall indeed. This is a serious and a dangerous problem. Not very long ago a young boy of only 11 was making graffiti when he was hit by a train and killed. This matter should be taken seriously; it is not a joke. I hope that that will soon be seen to be the case.

§ The Countess of Mar
My Lords, will the noble Lord say whether or not most of these offences are committed by young people? If that is so, is it not the responsibility of parents to see what their children are doing rather than that of the Government?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, the noble Countess makes a very good point. I understand that most of the offences are committed by young people. At the moment, there is a particular cult, mainly composed of teenagers, who take part in this crime. As I have already said, the other day there was a 811 tragic fatality involving one of those young people. Parents and teachers should certainly discourage children from doing this.