Housing: White Paper Proposals (Hansard, 16 November 1987)

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Minister of State, Department of the Environment (Lord Belstead)
My Lords, a series of consultation documents on the proposals in the White Paper have been issued separately and we have received written responses to many of these from each of the local authority associations, a number of individual local authorities and various organisations and individuals with an interest in housing.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that reply, but he must be aware that most of the authorities and associations interested in 2 housing are somewhat sceptical about the proposals achieving anything that will improve the housing situation in this country. Is he aware of the deep concern of a lot of people about the fact that there is no mention whatsoever of the plight of the homeless in the document or any proposals to deal with the situation? Are we to assume that the Government are satisfied with the present situation where the number of homeless people is rising week by week?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I would not entirely agree with the noble Lord's scepticism. The responses are coming in and it is too early to draw any firm conclusions about the views in them.
As regards homelessness, as the noble Lord knows, we have already increased the level of resources available for schemes for the homeless in London through our estate action programme. One of the great problems is the very large amount of empty property in both the private and public sectors, which could be used to ease the pressure.

§ Lord Broxbourne
My Lords, can my noble friend reassure the House on one point? The last paragraph of the White Paper refers to government policies including greater private sector involvement. Can he reassure us that, although no mention is made of the maintenance of housing standards, the objectives of the National Housebuilding Council will be uniformly applied?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, standards are certainly in the Government's mind. We had better wait and see what the Bill has to say when it is published.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, the Minister must be aware that the Institute of Housing, which is a totally independent body, has issued its response and it is completely convinced that even the Government's objectives will not be reached by the proposals.
Can I ask the Minister once again about the question of homelessness? Is it not a fact that there is a continuing rise in the number of people registered as homeless and also in the amount of money which has to be found by local authorities from rates to deal with the situation? Bearing those factors in mind, 3 ought we not to put homeless people in this country at the top of the queue for resources and not, as it appears at the moment from government policies, at the bottom?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, there is not a great deal between the noble Lord and the Government on this. In my first answer to the noble Lord's supplementary question I pointed out that the Department of the Environment is doing as much as it can through the estate action programme. I also mentioned the question of empty property. It is necessary to bear in mind that local authorities could look more imaginatively and positively at ways of bringing their empty stock back into use. There are over 20,000 such properties in London alone. Referring to the first part of the noble Lord's supplementary question, the objectives which the White Paper has set are important. I believe that they can be achieved, but let us see now what the Bill is going to say.

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, in regard to what the Minister said about local authority housing, is there not a Private Member's Bill in the other place dealing not only with local authority housing but also with the large number of empty properties in private ownership? Does the Minister's reply mean that the Government will support that Bill?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, in the first reply which I gave to the noble Lord, Lord Dean of Beswick, I made it quite clear that there is a very large amount of empty property, both private and public, which could help ease the pressure. I did not distinguish. So far as a Private Member's Bill in another place is concerned, I think we had first better wait and see whether it comes to your Lordships' House.

§ Lord Mellish
My Lords, is the Minister aware that I recently made a suggestion that, as homelessness in London in particular was concentrated in one or two boroughs and they were quite unable to cope, cutting out all the party politics it would be much better to have a regional authority with the power to acquire property from local authorities, which, as he rightly said, have thousands of empty properties? Indeed they do not even know that they have them; that is how thick they are. Private enterprise property that is empty also ought to be acquired. There should be a regional authority with the power to deal with homelessness.

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Mellish, did make two points and I endeavoured to respond to that debate. I have drawn those points to the attention of my right honourable friend.

§ Lord Scarman
My Lords, are the Government aware that there are proposals today for a Bill dealing with the use of empty properties for residential purposes? If the Government are aware of that, may we take it that this is completely consistent with government policy and that when formulated, the Bill—it is at the moment only a proposal—should have a swift, non-controversial passage through both Houses?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I agree with the noble and learned Lord about the subject but I have not seen the Bill. The noble and learned Lord would be the first to advise me that I would be rash to say that I agreed on behalf of the Government with the drafting of a Bill which I have not yet seen.

§ Lord Scarman
My Lords, I should explain that I have with me a broadsheet containing a Bill of nine clauses and two schedules which I shall see that Her Majesty's Government have almost at once.

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, we shall be most grateful to the noble and learned Lord.