§ 2.58 p.m.
§ The Earl of KimberleyMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what is their response to the European Space Agency's request for £30 million in extra funding in each of the next 10 years for their space projects.
§ The Secretary of State for Trade and Industry (Lord Young of Graffham)My Lords, if the United Kingdom had agreed to the programmes as proposed by the European Space Agency it would have increased our contribution to the agency from £85 million a year to over £200 million a year by 1993. We were not persuaded that the proposals offered sufficient scientific, industrial or commercial return to justify these enormous sums. We have decided not to increase our already substantial investment in space which is running at more than £100 million a year.
§ The Earl of KimberleyMy Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that Answer would he not agree that British industry should have more say in formulating and planning Britain's space objectives? Would he consider Her Majesty's Government matching every penny that British industry puts into space?
§ Lord Young of GraffhamMy Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend. Of course, British industry should have a considerable say in our considerable investment in the space programme. That is why we have resisted the enormous increases which the European Space Agency has proposed, increasing its budget from £1 billion per year to about £2 billion a year by 1993. Many of these increases were made without consulting industry. We will happily work alongside industry and work with it in looking at our space investment in the future.
§ Lord Orr-EwingMy Lords, would my noble friend bear in mind that France is so certain of the industrial future in space that she is currently contributing not £100 million as we are but £800 million? Germany is investing much more than we are; even Italy is doing much more than we are. Can we really afford to opt out? Would it not be better to try to make an agreement with British industry to cut back the over-ambitious programme now put before us but at least to maintain a stake in the future of the European Space Agency?
§ Lord Young of GraffhamMy Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend. Of course I am aware of the investment that has been put in by France, Germany and Italy. I am also aware that our economy is proceeding on a very satisfactory basis. One reason is that the Government are prudent with the amount of taxpayers' money which they actually invest.
Since the meeting in Rome in 1985 when all parties decided to formulate a balanced long-term plan for the next decade, the European Space Agency has adopted a new programme, Hermes, aimed at putting a man in space—something which the United States of America achieved in the 1960s. I do not see that it is absolutely necessary that we continue to re-invent the wheel. What we should like to do is to proceed with industry to look at the commerical logic of investment in space.
Lord Bruce of DoningtonMy Lords, on the assumption that the Prime Minister's efforts in Copenhagen are successful in securing some proper financial discipline within the European Community and that very substantial savings are made both in fraud prevention and detection and in the cutting out of wasteful expenditure, would the noble Lord give an indication as to whether the Government, in those circumstances, might be prepared to give new consideration to this?
§ Lord Young of GraffhamMy Lords, in the event that we are able to negotiate our way to ensuring that there is no wasteful expenditure within the European Community, we do not propose to reinvest in other expenditure that could by any description be called wasteful. What we shall do is look at prudent expenditure within the European Space Agency. I hope that we shall be able to proceed in a sensible way.
§ Lord GladwynMy Lords, how far will this refusal on the part of Her Majesty's Government affect the possible production in this country of the well-known HOTOL aircraft which is capable, apparently, of reaching Australia in an hour or two?
§ Lord Young of GraffhamMy Lords, HOTOL was not discussed at the meeting of the European Space Agency. We originally provided funding to assist in the proof of concept studies on HOTOL. We must await the results of those studies; the companies and the Government will then see how best to proceed.
The Earl of HalsburyMy Lords, at a time when our systems of local government, the National Health Service, social security and education are badly in need of repair and maintenance, is this the time to be spending further money on ventures into space? No amount of space technology will remedy ineffective management and sloppy direction.
§ Lord Young of GraffhamMy Lords, I agree that no amount of space investment is a remedy for any of those ills that afflict us. However, there is sensible and prudent investment in space. Space will yield great benefits, but wasteful investment will not.